Luminar 4.....Really????

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63 comments

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    Jorick Schram

    Exactly; the news about the paid (!) upgrade came as a surprise to me too. They really are rushing new features from the backlog with no sense for priority. With this attitude Luminar 4 will perform just as bad as Luminar 3, or even worse considering they're adding more unneeded weight... I mean who cares about AI sky replacement when even a basic thing like performance is sad at best. Luminar looks fancy until you actually want to use it. Every basic adjustment is with delays, even browsing between (edited) photos is painfully slow and buggy.

    "I really like the feature where you can drink a few cups of coffee when you're exporting 20 edited photos" ~ No one, ever

    So maybe instead of asking your loyal users to pay for another 'upgrade', how about giving them a refund for having to deal with barely usable software?

    I guess the saying really is true: pay peanuts, get monkeys.

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    john fallisgaard

    i agree. the DAM (digital asset management) is horrible and unacceptable in my estimation. I've had to go back to Aperture to manage my photos and just use luminar as an external editor when the built in aperture tools went enough. and aperture has been dead for what, over 3 years now!

     

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    Jorick Schram

    @Maryna:

    "Luminar 4 is a brand new app..."

    So, why not name it something different instead?

     

    "We can assure you that we will continue to support Luminar 3 in terms of performance and compatibility"

    For how long? How will Skylum allocate developer resources to the support Luminar 3 when they're building Luminar 4 and having trouble fixing the current list of issues in L3?

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    Randy Wachs

    I too am greatly disappointed, but not surprised, by the announcement of a (paid) upgrade to Luminar 4. I've paid for two iterations of this software and gotten very, very, little utility from Luminar 3 (and no use of the DAM). Luminar 2 wasn't polished either but at least usable for some editing. This announcement is a clear effort to add to the company's coffers (but not another penny from me!) AND provide an exit strategy to fixing the numerous inherent flaws users of Luminar 3 have identified and reported since its release. (The company line will be "You are free to use Luminar 3 but our development efforts are focused on Luminar 4. We encourage you to upgrade to experience new levels of usability, blah, blah, blah." )

     

    Sadly, customers who don't research will dive in. There will also be a small subset (to my eyes) of optimistic and naive Luminar 2 and 3 users who believe Luminar 4 "really will be different" and invest more dollars (and time as unpaid beta testers) in this release. Apparently, the company sees a cap on these lemmings at 20,001. I hope they are challenged to meet this goal. As another has mentioned in this thread, the very idea of capping discounted upgrades to existing users, particularly with their track  record over the past twelve months, is an insult.  The only way this type of development behavior changes is when they are NOT rewarded with additional financial capital.

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    Mitchell Weitz

    I had a similar reaction when I received the email about Luminar 4.  Clearly, Skylum needs to get its priorities straight. AI Sky Replacement? Seriously? That's what the developers are spending time on?  No wonder performance is poor and isn't getting any better.  In software, as in life, there are necessities and then there are luxuries. Acceptable performance in everyday tasks (browsing, exporting, etc.) and stability are necessities; AI Sky Replacement is a luxury.  (By the way, did anyone else laugh out loud at this line in the email: "Replace The Sky. Instantly."  Has Luminar ever done anything "instantly"?)

    I now fear that Luminar 3's basic deficiencies will never be fixed, as Skylum focuses on Luminar 4 and the revenue they hope it will bring in.

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    Ross Collins

    I expected the first announcement regarding Luminar 4 would be about delivery of the full suite of DAM functionality and other tools to achieve the promised 'Lightroom replacement'.

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    Christopher Lord

    Firstly, I am a long time Luminar owner but no email yet !!

    Secondly it seems that the replacement sky will have to be one of Skylum's own preset skies. Perhaps Skylum ought to be aware that for many photographers who enter club, national and international competitions, even where overt manipulation of an image is permitted, ALL the elements of a composite image have to be the photographer's own work and not the work of others. So if Skylum need to make sure that the photographer can use one of their own sky images and not just stock ones.

    Do I want to pay more hard earned money for an update when it hasn't even been released yet? Doubtful after the problems in the past and I certainly would want much more detail about the other 60+ improvements and a commitment to much more rigorous quality assurance.

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    Martin Reber

    I still use Luminar/Luminar 2018 occasionally.  I waited patiently for a very long time for Luminar 3 with Libraries ... only to be totally and completely underwhelmed.  THAT's what I waited for while it was late by more than a year?  The library functionality is hardly even worth calling it an image previewer, much less any kind of DAM.

    I can't believe Skylum actually said, and I quote, "We're working on a fantastic digital asset manager ("DAM") which will work like magic." OMG what an overstatement.  That, and what I can only categorize as an unmitigated disaster of a release when it actually happened.

    I'm still using Aperture (and by all appearances will continue to use Aperture) and continue to look for a good asset manager to replace it.  CaptureOne comes closest to what I want ... do you hear that, Skylum?

    Then there's Skylum's treatment of Creative Kit, which was actually a great package of great products.  As far as I can tell they removed it from the market, and you can't buy it any more.  What a shame.  Noiseless, Tonality and Snapheal were among some of the best photography applications I ever used (and still do).

    For me, Skylum lost nearly all the goodwill it had built up with Creative Kit & Luminar with the experience it gave us with Luminar 3.  And then instead of fixing the problems, and actually making the Libraries functionality a "fantastic digital asset manager" they instead went ahead and developed Flex, Accent AI and now the "all new" Luminar 4.  Why should I spend another dime on a Skylum product when the core products I'm interested in don't have the functionality they promised and then don't even work?

     

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    Mirco Egon In-Albon

    @Maryna

    is this the way you treat your customers? i don't know many who were satisfied with Luminar 3 until now at all. and now you expect they pay again? 

    it's not the product what is bad at all, the AI and the tools would be great, but the bugs and issues are unfortunately bigger than any joy using the product. Also, the support is not really satisfying, every time when we report an issue we get the same answer, we do and deliver what you want but did we ever get any feedback or an improvement?

    what i guess is that skylum only focus on making money, delivering new tools but is there any product management? any stress testing team (testing a new function with only a bunch of images is just not enough) andy quality team, any customer satisfaction interest or team? i guess not, also the support is very poor, as i reported my Luminar 3 Problems since the first day and until now really nothing is solved, and not only speak about the performance. also, the other tools as flex and photolemur are not satisfying and hey....i buy all of them.

    wouldn't it be fair to the unhappy luminar 3 customers to give them a free try on Luminar 4? in case you are not experienced in customer experience, do you think that any unhappy Luminar 3 customer will pay 1 cent for Luminar 4 without knowing that it has improved tremendously? 

    I even dropped the issues i had to Alex (your CEO) but there was still no feedback, no solution and nothing

    Having Photo Serge Ramelli making somehow marketing for your tools is also not the best solution, everybody who knows him or his homepage knows exactly that he promotes all and everything and every tool where he can earn some cash with.

    i would like to see or hear any professional photographer who is not paid by you or an affiliate what he thinks about the performance

    if your company not changes, i predict you that you are running out of business in the next 2 years, and this is sad, because the idea of Luminar or Photolemur are great, but the people behind are just not

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    Phil Hurd

    Yes Skylum where is that ". . . .  fantastic digital asset manager ("DAM") which will work like magic." that I have already paid for twice and it looks like I'm going to have to pay for a third time???

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    Christopher Lord

    I am now totally bemused by your strategy. Luminar 3 currently works as a plug-in and a stand alone, as does Luminar Flex. You have stated that Luminar 3 will lose its plug-in capability and Flex its stand alone functionality. Now you say Luminar 4 (when it arrives) will have both plug in and stand alone capability. Confusing or what!

    Then again you have stressed Luminar 4 will be new app, but now you are saying it is considered an upgrade to both Luminar 3 and Luminar Flex. Which is it - new app or upgrade, it can't be both?

    "Analysed customers' requests and they want innovative features" well I haven't got access to your data but doesn't ring a bell with me from what I've read on this community blog, I see endless pleading for stability, improved performance, fewer bugs, a DAM that really works and better customer support.

    Come on guys, its time you got real and sorted yourselves out or you will totally destroy whatever credibility you still have, kill off what is, when it works properly, an interesting, easy to use and effective alternative to other photo edit apps and in the process destroy your business.

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    Ross Collins

    Regrettably, Skylum has completely lost its way.

    We are told the focus has "shifted" to "innovative features including AI technologies" and that the "promised Library enhancements" are now "in the long-term".  As best we can tell from the spin, from Luminar 4, Flex (which was never on the product route map) will be folded back into core product and, in the meantime, it is hoped 20,000 L3 users will stump up $1,000,000 to keep the Skylum ship afloat.

    However, I would be most surprised if Skylum survives another 12 months, maybe much less, and expect it will disappear from sight as just another sad case of inept business and product management.  I've moved on.

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    Phil Hurd

    I am also a bit disappointed.

    I have spent a lot of money with MacPhun/Skylum. I used the Creative Kit suite of Apps for some time and then I purchsed Luminar on the promise of a Digital Asset Management System (DAM), which wasn't delivered. I also purchased AuroraI I uggraded to Luminar, agian on the promise of a DAM, which was half delivered and then they took a whole load of functionality away. I upgraded to Aurora 2019 on the promise of interoperability with Luminar, which hasn't been delivered. Now I will be asked to pay for an upgrade again to Luminar 4and I bet there will be no DAM or anything else that has been promised.

    Its also interesting that all of the Skylum 'upgrades' come around November, somebody said on this forum that its no different to paying for a Lightroom subscription, I'm begining to believe that might be the case.

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    K.G. Wuensch

    This sounds ominously as if the DAM is off the table and a cloud (yes they announced one to be close to beta - ROTFLSC, as if anything they produced ever had been that high quality to deserve to be a beta) is in instead, AI image mangling (yuck, Luminar Neptune was full of that and horrible) and a smartphone and tablet computer version too becoming a priority. 

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    Mirco Egon In-Albon

    @Phil, or you learn from your 2 prior payments and switch to a working software

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    Jorick Schram

    @Terry: Could you give some details as to how exactly these performance issues will be fixed? Is Luminar going to get multicore support? Hardware GPU acceleration for applying the filters on screen? Offload the exporting to a different thread so you can export edited photos in the background?

    Please understand that we, your loyal users, don't like to be left in the dark. The performance issues are - for most - a real pain and hurt the daily productivity, whereas it should empower us instead. Skylum releasing new features (and major versions) instead of addressing the widely reported performance issues feels like we're being fobbed off instead.

    Also, don't get me wrong. I really like Luminar in terms of how it works, I just hate it when something or someone is forcing me to slow down.

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    Lutz Ulrich

    Ja! Das ist sehr bedauerlich oder sogar eher dreist! Wir wurden mit einer Beta-Version gegen Bezahlung abgespeist, haben nur Märchen erzählt bekommen, das Team sei dran und in den kommenden Updates...

    Jetzt sollen wir für eine neue Version wieder bezahlen, von der keiner weiß, ob sie jemals einen Betastatus erreicht oder vollenden wird. Skylum, so verliert man Benutzer, die Euer Produkt mit ihren Kommentaren, Hilfestellungen den anderen Benutzern gegenüber und Vorschlägen zur Verbesserung Euch zuarbeiten. Zeit, zu C1 oder ähnliches zu wechseln. Dort bekommt man für sein Geld das, wofür man bezahlt hat.

     

    Skylum 3 wird garantiert nicht mehr weiterentwickelt, oder Skylum? Das ist die letzen Wochen und Monate schon nicht passiert und die Benutzer wurden für dumm verkauft! Ich denke, viele werden nicht noch einmal auf die Versprechen reinfallen, die hier seit Anbeginn von Luminar 3 gegeben werden.

     

    So long...

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    John Tweddell

    @Maryna We were promised “Virtual Copies (Luminar Libraries)” in the Luminar 3 road map (which has not been deleted?) will we still get this in the updates you say are still on the cards? Fingers crossed 🤞 

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    Phil Hurd

    Trouble is I like Luminar 3 as an editing suite. I've started using XnViewMP as my library but I am still amazed that Skylum cannot get interoperability between Luminar 3 & Aurora 2019 working (or can't be bothered). I doubt very much that I will be spending any more cash with Skylum, especially as I see things like AI Sky Replacement as unethical and just a gimmick.

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    Mirco Egon In-Albon

    i completely agree with you, but for me the performance while editing is inacceptable (the software architecture is just a fail) else the idea and the ease to edit would be great. but i was now disappointed by Luminar 3, Photolemur, Flex and the way they treat paying customers.

    ai sky replacement is maybe cool for people who dont have the patience or the eye for composition, but for me it's unethical too

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    Jim West

    Hello everyone...I too WAS a loyal Luminar/Skylum/Aurora supporter but finally saw the light 6 months ago and have moved on to ON1 RAW and will never go back.

    The only reason I am on this forum today was that I went back to Luminar 3 one more time only to find that I cannot import my photos directly from my camera into Onedrive/Luminar.  I just laughed when I saw a thread from 7 months ago stating that "if your iMac doesn't recognize your camera as a device then neither will Luminar". 

    ON1 RAW imports my photos from any of my cameras with no problem...as did Lightroom (which I have cancelled because ON1 RAW is the real deal now)

    Bringing out Luminar 4 for a "special" upgrade price of ONLY $59 is an absolute joke! Especially when you cannot even import photos from your camera.

    So people use that $59 towards a purchase of ON1 RAW...you will feel like you can breath again!  The maturity of this product is so far beyond Luminar that it is no contest.

     

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    Jim West

    As I stated in my previous post I have switched over to ON1 RAW. I truly have tried to use and like Luminar but it is missing too many features. And it is still not stable. One annoying thing it does is jumps from one photo to another for no reason. These basic issues are far more important than a AI sky enhancer or more presets.

    When is Luminar going to introduce these basic features:
    Being able to load photos directly from a camera?
    Lens corrections?
    Pano stitching?
    HDR bracketing?
    Text layers?
    Watermarks?

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    Phil Hurd

    The DAM should be upgraded in Luminar 3 Konrad because that was what was promised.

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    Howard Lebowitz

    @TerryRogers

    I am confused about your product line. What are you doing; are there now three options to choose from?

    Is Flex dead?

    Is Luminar 4 the replacement for Flex?

    If Luminar 4 is not replacing Luminar 3 will Luminar 4 have no DAM and be more like Luminar 2018?

    Will Luminar 4 work as stand-alone and a plug-in?

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    Jon Sweeny

    Exactly... I expected the next announcement will be a proper professional DAM and not the toy they call "Libraries" which I find so frustrating and useless!

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    Mirco Egon In-Albon

    Dear all

    somehow it makes me proud that i started with this thread one of the most commented in the Luminar Community, i hope it shows skylum that they are doing, acting and developing completely wrong, i liked the filters, the looks, worked with 1 or some few pictures, but with the size of my db skylum was not able to give me a satisfying answer or solution, Skylum cost me a lot of time, and as so, a lot of money. the customer support resulting in the customer experience is some of the worst i've ever seen. said so, i would like to say goodbye, thanks to skylum ripping off my money and not giving it back, thanks to skylum for promising bullshit. i did not like the adobe subscription, but since i switched back to adobe lightroom i am saving a tremendous amount of time, and especially nerves. Wish you all good luck waiting skylum delivering a working product. 

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    Konstantin Latsunas

    @Marina I loved Luminar and the fact that this is not a monthly fee program.... and I loved the functionality BUT the performance is really slow and what is for me the greatest disappointment is the DAM. especial in combination with a NAS-System. I wrote it here for many times that this is not usable ...

    Normaly I would be the first who buy the new version - alone for the reason to support the team - but can you promise me that the DAM would work?

    What would be the support for Luminar 3? Would you deliver a DAM that's work?

    Please answer this question and don't make your us more furstrated...

     

    regards Konstantin

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    Phil Hurd

    I think Skylum would argue that HDR bracketing is available in Aurora Jim. Trouble is it doesn't operate with Luminar, which I find astonishing.

    I've looked at ON1 before but wasn't that impressed, however I have just downloaded a 30 day trial of the latest version and I have to say that its looking good. As you say ON1 seems to do everything, I even migrated my old Lightroom Library. The only issue I have is the Sidecar files that ON1 uses, which I don't like. Apart from that I can't see me throwing any more money at Skylum, I feel badly let down by their undelivered promises.

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    Konrad Seidel

    I'm using LR6 and CaptureOne and Luminar3, still looking and hoping for ONE replacement of LR. Luminar has some really nice developing tools, but the DAM is slow and buggy, not usable. I understand that the development of the software cost a lot of money and I am willing to pay for it. So I paid for the upgrade to Luminar 4 hoping the bugs and speed issues in the library and DAM are resolved also. I do not need any sky replacement tool at all, I paid for the upgrade hoping that Luminar gets a library wich works as good as LR or Capture One (even it was promised for Luminar3).

    Using three softwares is painful, but Luminar has the opportunity to get THE one software. But it has to fix the issues in the DAM and library FIRST. Also the speed of exporting and also the feature of creating virtual copies!!!  

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    Phil Hurd

    Warren, the lack of interoperability between Luminar 3 and Aurora HDR 2019 is simply unforgivable as far as I am concerned. I can select 3 x bracketed images in my current (free) image catalogue (XnViewMP) and send them to Aurora HDR 2019 but I can't do it with Luminar 3. That's simply just shoddy.

    The way to do it from Luminar at the moment, is to select the 3 x bracketed images in Luminar and drag/drop them onto the Aurora dock icon. This will open the 3 images in Aurora for merging & editing. When in Aurora, you can use Luminar 3 for editing the merged file as a Plugin. However when you are happy with the end result, you have to either save the edit in propriaetry Skylum format or Export the image back to your file system.

    Withe regard to the DAM being available in Luminar 3 or 4 (I note you don't care), I do care, very much. I purchased the original version of  Luminar on the promise of a DAM and am not going keep paying Skylum for something gthey should have delivered a long time ago.

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