Luminar 4

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169 comments

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    Mitch Kite

    I thought I would chime in here too about Luminar 4.  I was actually very surprised to see a new version coming out so soon, especially with the poor execution of releasing Luminar 3 and the long delays in making the product functional.   We had waited patiently since December 2018 for a usable product.  The June release of Luminar 3 was a vast improvement and to be honest, the first usable release.  However, Luminar 3 still has some serious issues and promised bug fixes.  I do hope that you continue to fulfill your commitment to the Luminar 3 users and add promised features, like cr3 support and continue to fix the many reported bugs.

    I would gladly upgrade to Luminar 4 if version 3 was working to satisfaction from it's initial release.  I feel that you are trying to sell us version 4 which will basically be Luminar 3 with the addition of sky replacement.  Luminar 3 has limited functionality in many areas and I do not think it is fair to basically sell us the bug fixes.  I think that you owe it to the Luminar community to keep your promise and fix Luminar 3 and add missing/underdeveloped features.

    After the chaotic experience with Luminar 3, it is a big ask to want us to upgrade to Luminar 4.  I don't think that Skylum has gained enough trust back to expect me and others to pay for an upgrade to Luminar 4.

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    Yves Smolders

    A quote from this forum, below:

    no paid upgrades until the end of 2019.  it's July, please pay for Luminar 4?  Are you serious?  Major new version with a half-*ss*d version 3?

    I don't think so.

     

    "

    We have initially planned to release those features in Luminar 2019, as a paid upgrade, just like we usually do. However, this week, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>we made a decision to forgo any paid upgrades at least until the end of 2019, and add those features to Luminar 2018 for free.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Luminar will be getting faster, more powerful, and smarter, but you >>>won't<<< have to >>>>>>>>>>pay a dime<<<<<<<< to get new upgrades<<<<<<<<<<<."

     

     

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    Carl Douthit

    I have hung with Skylum, kind of, since the very first version of Luminar for Windows PC was offered in November, 2017.

    To be bluntly obvious, that first release was Alpha quality, not even Betaware--but features were scheduled to be released during the following 3 months to bring it up to what it should be.

    And so my disappointment with Skylum/Luminar began as target after target was late or not met at all.

    And startup times on my Windows machine got slower and slower. I remain unconvinced that Skylum's approach to the Windows version is NOT to make a poor-quality port of the functioning Mac version rather than code a parallel version for Windows.

    I updated my Luminar 3 yesterday to see if it was usable yet.

    After updating and restarting a couple of times for various reasons, I started Luminar 3 this morning and ran a stopwatch to see how long it took to load from nothing to functioning.

    It took just over 6 minutes. Now, I do understand that the times for other Windows users might be shorter, and for others it might be longer. But the simple fact is this: I ran the test on the machine that will I would be using for photo editing and it is NOT underpowered. (The processors are about 4 Ghz and I have 16 GB of memory.)

    As a comparison, I loaded my copy of ACDSee Photo Studio Ultimate 2019. That app took about 19 seconds from nothing to functioning.

    Regardless of the path for current users to Luminar 4, I cannot see the value of throwing more money at Skylum. The only thing that might convince me otherwise would be this: If Skylum were to publish a minimum specs for a Windows 10 PC to run Luminar 4 AND make a money-back guarantee that Luminar 4 would go from nothing to functioning in 60 seconds or less.

    Being that ACDSee Photo Studio only takes 19 seconds to load, I think I am being more than gracious in my expectations of how long it should take Luminar to load, be it Luminar 3 or Luminar 4.

    Otherwise, I just don't see the value for a program that has a DAM that handles Keywords so poorly and that opens so VERY slowly -- regardless of the upgrade path (unless it was free and I could continue to test the loading and functioning speeds.

    The experiences of other users may make it worth the money for them.

    But. Not. For. Me. at this point with the poor level of performance of Luminar 3.

    The really sad thing is that I LIKE the visual concept of Luminar and that it has the editing details available as well. But I cannot help but think that Skylum has blown a tremendous opportunity in the Windows PC environment.

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    Oleg Oryshchak

    Luminar 3 is still is not usable in terms of performance and we just got 30% of the adviced features. I can’t see any reason over investing more money into the software if we won’t see the features that we were sold into and paid for.

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    Simon Notley

    I'm pretty certain we were promised free upgrades throughout 2019, changing the version number and saying it's no longer included (when 3 isn't even stable) seems at best disingenuous.

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    Greg Luckett

    I don't buy that Maryna. From the looks of these forums, your customers are demanding a working version of Luminar 3 that has the functionality that was already promised. They are not demanding new AI fancy features that will use one of your handful of preset sky pictures.

     

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    Timo Schwaar

    They want 49€ for an update from 3 to 4!!!

     First they promise us a lot  of functions (f.a. EXIF-edit ) and we get nothing of it and now we should pay for an update? This is fraud for me. 

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    James Moore

    Come on Skylum. Myself and others have hung in with the very dodgy Luminar 3 despite myself now reverting to Luminar 2018 because Luminar 3 simply did not work. I'll assume that we (the Luminar 3 gang) will be getting L4 upgrade for free. Please, please, please do not release L4 until you have tested it and tested the upgrade path. The sky replacement is something I've been asking for for years. I just hope it and the rest of Luminar finally works. BTW I use Aurora HDR almost daily and it is terrific.

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    Tom Pickering

    This is a bucket of road apples!  Back before Luminar 3 was released, the Windows users were told parity with the Mac version of 2018 and operational improvements were back-burnered because Skylum's focus was on releasing a DAM that most users were demanding in order to be the Lightroom replacement we were promised before Luminar 2018 was released.  Luminar 3 was finally released and the all important DAM was (and still is not) anything close to a functioning replacement for ANY other product with DAM built in (Lightroom, On1 Photo Raw, Exposure X4, ACDSee, etc.).  Every time a new version is in the works, real work on the current version ends up being all but back-burnered.  Why should we expect a new leaf from this old tree?  Plus their track record on initial releases is trashed because the don't employ real-world beta testing on real-world computers outside of the lab.  Do you really expect Luminar 4 to work right out of the box?  Are you reading the real-world concerns and complaints at all?  SMH.

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    K.G. Wuensch

    What did you guys expect? Luminar 2017 was Mac only and worked decently.

    Luminar 2018 was so poor in quality that they didn't have a chance to charge for Luminar 3 - now that half of the promised features are there they think they can get away with overpromising again and charge for the update to Luminar 4. D

    o you really believe that the Wolf sheds it's coat and turns out to be a sheep underneath? Luminar still has no DAM (promised for Luminar 2017 already!), it's performance is poor, the filter quality is iffy, concepts botched, still no feature parity between the MacOS version and the Windows version (no real time update for histograms or white/black point visualisation), the RAW filter is missing current cameras (yes CR3 is hard but not impossible to read but being a video derived wavelet decomposition it is subject to patents and thus probably requires licensing or buying the Canon SDK) - but all that is not going to come to Luminar 3, that time they wasted on some haphazard AI (that doesn't deserve the "intelligence" part of that moniker) and the highly valuable "this day in the past" - which can't show much because for that it would have to be able to deal with more than a few 100's of images in it's database... It has an unstable database for the meagre few search criteria but can't deal with IPTC, geo referencing, keywords. Color management is half baked (on Windows, on Mac they haven't found a way to avoid it because on that OS that is an integral part of the SDK), printing support is absent as are most of the exporting options other programs offer...

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    Olaf Wieder

    I find it more than questionable now to offer a paid update to version 4, where not even the promised features of version 3 were met. We were persuaded to buy version 3 with the indication that there would be no paid updates until the end of 2019, the list of improvements during this period was long. What has been implemented? Unfortunately only a little! I just like being around the corner with Version 4 and announcing big "Oh, for only $ 49 you can now also change the sky in your pictures". This is more than dubious!

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    Helge Erik Storheim

    Yes, no way I'm paying for an upgrade. They have to fix version 3 first so I can actually use it on Windows. If they don't, I'm done with Luminar.

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    Dieter Neitsch

    Hello Skylum Team,
    the upgrade is the one thing.
    But it was 2019 with the completion of the promised points from the roadmap and the free upgrade started.
    Exchanging the sky is quite nice, but first the stability / speed should be improved and the points from the roadmap realized.

    Dieter

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    K.G. Wuensch

    So Maryna, you‘re saying that Skylum is abandoning further development putting Luminar 3 into the  maintenance state while the all newfangled Luminar 4 will take all of your attention - quite a stretch to explain that to your most loyal customers that they are effectively buying the proverbial cat in the bag - could well be a case of Schrödingers cat...

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    Guy Meacham

    @Martim Durão,

    Hey Martim not looking to get into an argument but a few points. Lots of voices complaining when something like this happens does change things. If you look at replies from skylum we are already seeing changes (not enough) in the plan. A few days ago they were only promising "future performance & compatibility" updates to L3. Yesterday they started promising future DAM updates to L3 too. That was obviously not part of their original plan or they would have said so.

    As to the roadmap its never provided any useful information. Beside being overly vague Flex & the L4 announcements came out of the blue and were never on the roadmap. Features that they promised they were working hard on never even made it to the roadmap. so was the roadmap correct and they were just lying or was the roadmap just always out of date?

    If L3 was working as promised then it would be perfectly acceptable to offer L4 as a paid upgrade but that is not that case. L3 is barely working and well short of what was promised so why would people buy L4 and  and expect anything to be different. I don't expect to get L4 and it's new bells and whistles for free I do expect to get what I was promised and paid for in L3.

    By contrast when ON1 offers it's yearly upgrade there are already videos produced to show specifically what those improvements and new features will be and we see them being used in the software in the video.  

    Just my 2 cents. 

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    Sascha Picchiantano

    Martim, no one would be complaining if this was a regular upgrade. While for some it is, for a lot of people it isn't. You have to take the history of what happened in the past into account. A lot of people here bought Luminar 2018 in 2017 because they were promised a DAM. Luminar 2018 was released and guess what, it did not contain a DAM. Skylum said it would come with the next release (L3), and that L3 was a paid upgrade. There was a lot of outrage back then, similar to what happens right now. So Skylum finally caved in and made L3 a free upgrade for those who pre-ordered L2018. Then L3 was released, and guess what, it did not contain a DAM. It was delayed and postponed over and over again. And again, there was a lot of outrage and complaining about it. So Skylum made a promise that because we all had to wait so long, all upgrades in 2019 would be free. Then the DAM was finally released, and it wasn't even close to a DAM. Again, we were promised improvements and bug fixes that never came. And now they announce L4 and tell us all to pay again?

    Seriously?

    Maybe you now understand why there is this much outrage right now. For the third time. 

    Skylum, you guys should be extremely and massively ashamed of yourselves. I don't know how you guys can look in the mirror still. 

     

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    Sascha Picchiantano

    Geoffrey, what do you even care? If you're happy, move along. I always find it pretty lacking in IQ when people complain about people who complain. Who are you to tell people what to demand and ask for? Do I tell you that you can't be happy with your purchase?

    Also, nobody owns this thread. We don't need to create "our own" thread. We are vocal in whichever thread we choose to be vocal in. If that upsets you, don't read it. That being said, there are threads that were opened separately for this topic. And not just one. 

     

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    Andy H

    Let's just respect each others views here.  For some Luminar 3 works great, fantastic, I'm happy for you. For a considerable number of us though, Luminar 3 does not, so that viewpoint needs to be respected as well. I've spent hundreds of dollars on MacPhun/Skylum products over the past 6 years and I feel that I've earned the right to hold Skylum accountable for their failure to deliver an adequate product for me and many others.

    Whether Luminar works for you or not, one thing is undeniable.  Skylum have failed to deliver on their development roadmap within the timescales they indicated.  Their answer to this is not to double down and deliver, it's change the goal posts and revise the roadmap - or as they like to call it "roadmap maintenance". This has significantly reduced our trust in Skylum as a brand and they need to do something to restore that.

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    Dieter Neitsch

    Hallo Skylum-Team,
    the upgrade is the one thing.
    Aber es wurde 2019 mit der Abarbeitung der versprochenen Punkte aus der Roadmap und dem kostenlosen Upgrade begonnen.
    Den Himmel austauschen is ja ganz schön, aber erst sollte die Stabilität / Geschwindigkeit verbessert werden sowie die Punkte aus der Roadmap realisiert werden.
    Dieter

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    Daniel Kämpf

    Hey Skylum, you announce me no paid updates for at least whole 2019! So why should I pay for version 4 in autumn 2019? Do your job, get Lumninar 3 ready. Maybe skip the sky replacement to later time, no problem. But please stay to what you announced. Otherwise you'll lose me!

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    Sascha Picchiantano

    I nag as long as I god damn please, Martim. Who are you to tell others whether they have a right to complain or not? Feel free to stuff more money into this obvious scam, no one is holding you back. Those who have a valid reason to complain will complain and you are not going to stop it. 

     

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    Andy H

    @Geoffrey.  I'm glad Luminar is working for you.  Luminar 3 doesn't for me, but having been a MacPhun/Skylum customer for many years and spent hundred of $$ on their products I feel I have the right to hold them accountable and vent my frustration, as I like many other have funded their development program. As much as you may dislike the tone of some of the comments here, I think it's a little cheap to call those out as condescending when yours pretty much exemplify it. "Snotty little 3 year old", I love it!

    I've spent many hours having "grown up" conversations with the Skylum support team and unfortunately all I get back is standard arms length, scripted marketing spiel that does nothing to give me the impression they are genuinely listening. This is one reason some of us vent our frustration in this community.

    My problem isn't with AI per se, it's that Skylum have focussed on this too much to the detriment of the other aspects of the editing workflow in Luminar. Yes its another tool or filter and we don't have to use it, but if they're giving us these at the expense of speed, performance, reliability, a solid DAM, good masking tools (that we can control), then that's an issue for me. It looks like with Luminar 4 - based on Angela's comment above - Skylum are going to to be restricting workflow flexibility to maintain performance, which is concerning.

    I hope you have a great day of photography, I'm heading out myself soon and will be editing mine in ON1 Photo RAW, perhaps with some finishing touches with Luminar 2018 (the last great version in my opinion).  I'm not a schill for anyone, I just don't mind sharing what works for me. It's great we have a choice of products to use.

     

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    Lars-Göran Nordström

    I agree with Mitch Kite fully.

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    Krzysztof Szyper

    Does it provide anything more besides sky replacement?

    You want us to buy new version and tell only about one new feature.

    I regret buying Luminar, because it's not useful as Lightroom replacement, it's still missing a tone. Good that new users can buy Flex instead.

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    James Andreas

    Let me guess, still no CR3?

    I haven't' been able to use the software in the entire year I've owned it because the one feature I need is still 'coming soon'.

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    Michael Anderson

    Ask for your money back and delete all their products from your machine.

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    Sascha Picchiantano

    @terry how stupid do you think people are? Will L3 get any new features? No. Everytime you release a new feature you make it a major new Luminar version, forcing people into upgrading. This - by the very definition - is a pure scam.

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    Paul Moss

    @Terry quoted from the pre-Luminar 3 release "Because you shouldn't have to pay extra for new features that every photographer needs"  a short lived philosophy

    I want the software that I have purchased to properly perform! It has been pushed as a Lightroom replacement. I used Lightroom with LRTimelapse to happily produce 4K video in minutes - I had intended to use Luminar 3 to carry out the adjustments in batches for export to file and then compile in another program but it takes HOURS to batch process. Lord knows where Skylum has gone wrong but the performance is an embarrassment

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    Sascha Picchiantano

    Anna, there is nothing to figure out here. You just stop this scam and keep up your promise that ALL upgrades for 2019 will be free for those who pre-ordered L3. That was your promise, now go get your act together and keep it up.

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    Greg Luckett

    I'm with Sasha on this one. This has scam written all over it. We are told that all updates in 2019 would be free and receive a couple of updates. Then, part way through, we are told that it would now be a paid upgrade because it is now called Luminar 4, which is a "whole new product." We still haven't seen what was already promised in the product yet, and now you are off working on some shiny new toy because your "artists you talked to requested it."

    I for one am done with Skylum. For the money you offered the upgrade for (well, for 20,000 people, that is), I purchased On 1 Photo Raw which is already well ahead of Luminar where useful functionality is concerned (hallelujah for having Keywords again).

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