Luminar 4

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    Wim van der Meer

    @Will Roberts II

    Luminar retains the edit history over sessions. Also after closing and reopening. Just tested it. But not over crashes :-\. I really like the way Luminar works and I will give v4 a try. But I have my doubts about its stability for large photo collections. Also, its DAM features are very limited. And I am very annoyed that v3 doesn't read Olympus Hires Raw correctly, which they have promised many times they would solve but never did (it worked in the previous version).

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    Will Roberts II

    @Wim van see Meer

    You’re right. Luminar does retain the edit history. I had Luminar mixed up with another program (rested too many trials). The DAM in Luminar and its lack of functionality is want drove to to check out other programs.

    It looks like my editing program setup will be Exposure X5 and Luminar with the bulk of the workflow done in the former and image layering in the latter. Going to wait until Luminar 4 is release before settling on it over On1 PhotoRaw for image layering.

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    Wim van der Meer

    I thought I knew most photo organising and editing programs but thanks to this forum I have learnt about Exposure and PhotoSupreme. Very interesting. I've been looking at Exposure for a couple of weeks now and I like it. I have started to look at PhotoSupreme and it also looks interesting. When Aperture was no longer supported by Apple I started looking for alternatives and the first I've been using a lot was an early ON1 version. Like Sascha I have never been comfortable with ON1's interface, but as others have remarked, this is personal. As I have used Photoshop since its very beginnings (and that is still a powerhouse) I see certain similarities with the things ON1 does, but being used to Photoshop... But frankly, Photoshop, Affinity, Pixelmator and the like have very different aims and functions. The question is how far you want to go in modifying the RAW image you shot. How important is it to stay close to what you photographed. I'm not saying you have to. Using a RAW original and working with it in different ways can be perfectly wonderful. But what I want primarily is a good DAM and a good RAW developer. I don't want layers at that point. I don't want to replace a dull sky by a Ruysdael painting. Not yet. Maybe later. Morphing. Yes I want to straighten some lines. Barrel and cushion correction. Colour correction, to match my totally subjective memory of the reality I photographed. But not changing green to red. No twirling, pinching and bumping. Not yet. Maybe later. Photoshop, pixelmator and others can do all that later. And so much more. Add text, floating objects, curtains. I just know that I cannot go on buying all those programs and paying for their upgrades. I thought I got over GAS, and now this :-(

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    Andy H

    I too have found this thread pretty enlightening.  But as a keen amateur photographer, I can't justify spending $130 - $140 on just a DAM like Photo Supreme or Photo Mechanic - no matter how good they are. ON1 does a terrific job for me and Exposure X5 would also be great. 

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    Wim van der Meer

    @Andy

    Wow, I missed Photo Mechanic. Thanks for pointing me there. I was just looking at their intro movie and they explicitly state it's for pros. I'm not, but I was. Perhaps you are also pointing me into the right direction of combining a cheaper DAM with a specialised editor. ApolloOne (±15$) could be a very good choice. For editing I really like DxO and Luminar. But the problem of upgrades is all around (except for ApolloOne).

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    Shaun Mullins

    Dear Skylum:

    You honestly expect me to pay for Luminar 4 when Luminar 3 that I purchased a year ago remains unusable for photo editing!?!? I'm running a high-end windows machine with advanced graphics, memory, and processor, but it still never works like it should. It is the slowest, buggiest, crashiest software I have ever experienced and I am over it. I waited patiently and installed the updates to find little to no improvement. I've been way too patient. This product is crap and I'm done with your company for good.

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    Wim van der Meer

    @Shaun @Andy H

    I already paid for the upgrade :-(, but only because there is a money back guarantee :-\. It does seem unlikely that I will stay with Luminar. In the early days they were promising a lot, actually they suggested it would be THE Aperture replacement. So far that doesn't seem to be on the horizon. And then there too many flaws that are remain unresolved while spearheading towards AI for all, Photolemur+. Very unfortunate, because the editing engine of Luminar and the UI were so extremely promising.

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    Tom Pickering

    @AndyH

    I agree with you, having been on this runnawaytrain since he beginning (and on a PC to make matters worse}, but I have to give Skylum credit for a major change in their strategy with Luminar 4 - they released a beta version into the hands of people posting demonstrations on YouTube.  Seeing is believing, including actual demoson a PC.  This is a big step up for Skylum, despite their horrible track record.

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    Andy H

    @Tom Pickering

    A slight step up I would say. How many of the Luminar 4 demos online have you seen running on the PC version? I can't say that I've seen them all, but a vast majority if not all the ones I've seen look to have been for Mac. We don't know the specs of the machines that they are running in the demos, so for me I won't part with my money until the Luminar 4 is running on my machines and I've given it a good workout.  I'm also very skeptical of what some of the affiliates say and claim, after all they have a vested interest in Skylum selling as many copies of Luminar as possible.

    @Wim van der Meer

    Yes, Skylum do have a money back guarantee, which in fairness is hassle free as I got a refund a while ago on one of their products. Luminar does have some bright spots, it's a shame they are masked by poor basic execution.

    Only a couple of weeks to go and we'll see if Skylum have got their act together!

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    Wim van der Meer

    Hahaha, Tyshawn Cormier developed a program called Retroactive that will make Aperture rise from the grave under Catalina. So are all our worries over then? Well, the truth isn't that they aren't. Aperture development has been abandoned since 2014, and that takes a toll. Still, I would suggest to ALL developers to get Aperture up and running and set their aim right there.

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    Wim van der Meer

    PS: I was born in Utopia, but recently I moved to Realitia, and I now know Aperture will never come back again :-(

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    Wim van der Meer

    PS2: Retroactive works perfectly. Downloaded Aperture from the App store (I had trashed it when Catalina beta came out), ran Retroactive and voilà. Still the best, though it has some handicaps now.

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    mumutuu

    There is another option about DAM, that is Daminion 6.2, which has almost all Lr management functions, including keywords, GPS, maps, filters, search and more. It has a free version and a basic version, both of which are free, the free version can manage 15,000 photos, the basic version can manage 25,000 photos, and if you want to manage more photos, you can only create multiple catalogs.
    There are also two paid versions, the number of photos that can be managed is 75,000 and unlimited.

    But, it only has a Windows version, does not support macOS.

    English is not my mother tongue, I hope that I have already made it clear.

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    Colin Grant

    mumutuu, you made that very clear indeed. Thank you :-)

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    Roger Bolt

    I purchased the Early Bird download for Luminar 4 on 10/13/19 which begs the question; Will be able to download on 11/11/19 or will I have to wait for 11/18/19 to download? Looking forward to plugin setup with Lr Classic. Have enjoyed the tutorials. 

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    Wim van der Meer

    @mumutuu
    I think this is not available for macos.

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    Colin Grant

    It is available for macOS and windows but to get it on the 11th you have to have been in the first 20000 purchasers.

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    Angela Andrieux

    Hi Roger - The early release is for the first 20,000 to pre-order. This promotion sold out in early August so all other pre-orders after that date will receive Luminar 4 on November 18.

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    Roger Bolt

    Thank you for the clarity Angela. At the time of the purchase that wasn't mentioned in the material online. I'm certainly ok with the wait but it looks like marketing hype was used to make early sales and the 20,000 were not mentioned in 10/13 when I purchased the software. At least not on the web pages I found.

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    Angela Andrieux

    Hi Roger - I'm very sorry for any confusion our marketing materials caused and appreciate your understanding.

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    Andy H

    Just so everyone's clear as well. Skylum also sneakily reduced their refund period from 60 days to 30 days.  To quote Kate Williams on a different thread:

    "Indeed, our money-back guarantee was changed to a 30-day one on September 3rd. Those who purchased the app before this date will be able to request a refund within 60 days, as it was specified during the purchase." 

    I suppose they've brought it back in line with the competition, but they didn't exactly make that very clear either.  Hopefully you won't need to exercise that option, but if you do just bear this in mind.

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    Andy H

    Thanks for your initial impressions Martim. I’m looking forward to hearing more unbiased, affiliate-free reviews and comments over the coming days.

    I’m trying to keep an open mind, but already I’m concerned. Reported install issues, slow performance and load times, adjustment slider lag, slow rendering of files, no use of GPU power - seems like Luminar 3 all over again. I’ll reserve final judgement until I’ve tried it myself. I hope my experience will be better.

    What about the Library module? Have they done anything to improve that? Keyword support perhaps?

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    Colin Grant

    Keywording and search is due for L3 and L4 in 2020 I believe.

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    Martin Ische

    I would really like to write something positive about the update to L4 now. Because I'm still convinced that Luminar has a lot of potential.
    The results of some tools are really convincing or even outstanding (compared to Lightroom, DxO, On1 and especially C1).

    But unfortunately important basic functions are still missing or they are not mature or even go backwards with the update (see below).
    And the current update crashes regularly (Win 10, 1709, 16 Mb RAM, Geforce M3000M, i7-6280HQ), especially when changing pictures.

    And L4 is definitely too slow. A picture change between unprocessed JPG (up to the sharp picture) must not take several seconds even with an older laptop, if many other programs manage this without delay.

    The update of the user interface may be better suited for beginners, but if you sell yourself as a professional program, this is a clear step backwards for me:
    In L3 I could see with much less clicks which filters there are and which filters are currently applied to the image. Playing" with the filters was much easier. The ability to create filter sets was great (similar to C1). Now you have to click back and forth all the time, way too many clicks, very cumbersome. I don't understand why they changed that or at least only offered it as an alternative. I never read any complaints about the L3 operating concept.

    And what about the basic functions?
    - the picture bar on the left side still can't be enlarged, on my 4K screen I have to guess how photos differ from single rows.
    - No keywords
    - the noise removal is still poor, the Skin Enhancer doesn't make it better (please have a look at Topaz Renoise, this is the reference)
    - the caching seems to work only very limited, at each zoom level the recalculation of the image starts
    - the export takes far too long (30 seconds for a JPG !) and has far too few options (no settings for the export)
    - and still: processor load too high, I don't care about the high memory load

    Finally something positive: the Sky Replacement Tool is really fun and the Portrait Enhancer is very effective.

    I do not give up hope that one day Luminar will become a stable, fast and complete program.
    If the current update was there to save Skylum financially, then that's OK.

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    Roger Bolt

    Suggest using as plugin to your main software. I use Lr Classic

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    Andy H

    I’ve long given up on Luminar becoming my main editing software and L4 isn’t going to change that if the Libraries module remains as poor as it is. I still use Flex (as L3 was so bad) and it works great as a plugin not only to Lr, but also an “other application” to ON1 or an “external editor” to Exposure X5.

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    Martin Ische

    In addition to my own post (which is still pending :-) ):

    For a full photo editing software the exchange with other programs is still missing:
    - Data of other programs (XMP files) are not read yet
    - And no data is passed on to other programs.
    - And it is not possible to call external editors from Luminar.
    - And it completely lacks publishing to external services.

    Maybe it was a mistake to sell yourself as a great DAM. The focus on Flex might have been better. Unfortunately, Flex doesn't work for me because a higher Windows version is required (which I can't install, nor such a software GAU).

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    Sam C

    Everything that mattered and was wrong with Luminar 3 has been completely ignored, it was (and still is) riddled with issues, I spent months trying to get them resolved.

    Luminar 4 the new shiny software is no more than some UI fixes - underneath it's the same old story - buggy, unstable and just as slow.

    Trust me, don't waste your money upgrading to the "new version".

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    Andy H

    @Sam C. Wow, this is exactly the worry I had i.e. Luminar 4 would be built on the same shaky foundations as Luminar 3 with a new UI to try and paper over the cracks. I’ll still give it a try next week, but I’m not expecting a good experience. Maybe I’ll be surprised (fingers crossed)!

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    Andy H

    @Roger. Not a dark thought at all. After all, with Luminar 3 we probably all feel we’ve been part of the longest beta testing period ever......and some would argue it still hasn’t even passed release candidate status yet!

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