New Luminar update is coming soon

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    George Knochel

    @Christopher Barkey

    Chris, you said you are a Developer?  Well, I was one for over 30 years, from mainframe corporation-size installations to mini computers to Unix and Windows PCs.  Then retired.  And, in all of my career, in every team that I was in, there was always very careful planning and rigorous system testing of all programs and procedures BEFORE RELEASING THE SOFTWARE TO PRODUCTION status!

    Here, with this software, L3, I'm sorry to see that it sure is not that.  And sad to see that many companies in the last several years seem to be so sloppy in their organizational program coding, system testing, and quality assurance methods.

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    Jack Roth

    George, very respectfully, but things have changed so substantially from the way software was developed 30 years ago as to be unrecognizable. I know, because I have been along for the ride during that time too. The nature of object-oriented and crowd-sourced software designed to run on platforms of which the software designer has no control or knowledge has made s/w development just so different as to defy comparisons. Even with all the new QA tools now available, from automated to AI-based testing, the fact remains that both the software components and the architecture on which they are expected to run vary more widely than most people can imagine. A bug-proof release is a thing of the past I'm afraid, because of the almost infinite number of possible dependencies. I worked in classified environments, where 9-month, multiple-cycle, 3d-party testing and certification were mandated, and it still didn't take care of all possible issues. Honestly, what software manufacturer out there, in any business, delivers bug-free software in anyone's memory? Not even Apple, and they have a major advantage over everyone else as they control both the hardware and OS stack. I think Skylum is to be commended for being proactive about these issues, and for keeping the customer informed, especially for a product that is offered at a substantially  lower price point than the competition. I find Luminar 3.1 to be quite stable, and very powerful. I certainly feel I got a hell of a deal on this software. I am very happy to give them time and patience to develop as stable a release as they can. Again, I am only offering my opinion for what it's worth, and I have nothing but respect for your own experience in IT. 

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    Jerry Hall

    @Jack, As one with similar old school experience and a son in new school layered and component based multi vendor based software development I agree it is a brave new world. But architecting, software management, debugging, testing and error free principles have advanced too.  Your analogy to Apple is apt. Skylum’s jump to Windows and DAM was a risky big leap with inevitable unintended side effects.  Staying well back from this “bleeding edge” is wise for a user who just wants to concentrate on their photography and protecting their time and images.  Another old school principle is to bless those who are early adapters of a major new release.  I too am happy to be patient. 

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    George Knochel

    Hi Jack,

    Thank you for your observations.  Yes, you do have very good points there, comparing the IT "controlled environment" in which I was a programmer / analyst from 1967 to 1999, and the current Internet environment, with the vast array of hardware and software layers, all hopefully working together, and to the end customer's specific make and model of hardware and operating system.  It's very complicated.

    Now, some of the Luminar 3.0.1 and 3.0.2 problems may or may not be caused by the hardware / software differences between the IT department's testing on their equipment, versus the customer's equipment.  Some of it probably is.  We also have seen other similar software being updated, and having some problems on introduction.

    So some just fall down harder on new updates than others, it looks like.  

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    Richard Harrington

    @Colin there is a Locate files command now on Mac.  Coming to Windows soon.  You can tell it where to look on a new drive if you needed to restore to a different drive or location.

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    Richard Harrington

    @Andrew

    To respond to your comments

    "Not just the fact they are promoting a product that's not really working well at the moment, but other factors too."

    The product for most users is working very well.  But being specific about the bugs or issues you are having helps the team fix them.  The release that shipped today fixes hundreds of things that people reported.  There are so many possible configurations and hardware options, as well as workflows.  Filing a report helps.

    "Such as the way they bang on about you only paying once, but 'enjoy' forever. Yet the next year they change the product version number and charge again for it, or even cease development altogether, as they did with the Creative Kit products."

    The software purchase you buy can be enjoyed forever. Simply keep your computer on one of the supported operating systems and use a supported camera.  Skylum releases multiple free updates for both performance and features as well as numerous free looks and LUTs for download in the marketplace to give you fresh options.

    However, from time to time there are NEW upgrades that add NEW features.  These are offered at a discount to customers and they are an optional purchase.  If you don't want the new features, stay put with the application version you have.  It will continue to work.

    As far as the Creative Kit products, yes application all eventually end.  However, those apps all still launch and I use some of them today.  What is it you're missing or unable to do with them?

    "I don't have an objection to the buy a product - get a few bug 'updates' for free - pay for an 'upgrade' to the next full version cycle. But that's not what they imply when you buy a product, I'm expecting to buy Aurora, or Luminar, and not have to pay again for as long as I want to use that product - calling it Aurora 2019, or Luminar 2018 and adding a few new features isn't really playing by the rules IMHO. It's certainly not helping with my trust and respect for Skylum."

    The product page says "No Subscription, Own and Enjoy" which is fully true.

    It also says Luminar 3. Pay Once and Enjoy Forever.  That is also true.  But it is not promising free updates forever and all new features.  It's trying to say that you own the software and can run it for as long as you want.  For example I have an old MacBook Air.  It's frozen at OS 10.7.  It still boots.  It still runs.  But Apple won't let me upgrade it to newer OS because of hardware limitations.    But I still own it, it still works, and my son uses it often.

    I get the semantics and that this can be misunderstood.  The team is looking to add clarity here.

    they also made Luminar 3 a free upgrade to Luminar 2018.

    Even if we do get a working DAM eventually, I'm not actually sure I can trust Skylum anymore, how long will it work properly, how long will they continue developing Luminar before abandoning it, or changing to a 'new' different product.

    Both Aurora HDR and Luminar have multiple updates planned.  You can also see the Luminar roadmap which ius published here – https://skylum.com/luminar/roadmap

     

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    Andrew Hewitt

    @Richard

    Thanks for taking the time Richard.

    "Not just the fact they are promoting a product that's not really working well at the moment, but other factors too."

    The product for most users is working very well.  But being specific about the bugs or issues you are having helps the team fix them.  The release that shipped today fixes hundreds of things that people reported.  There are so many possible configurations and hardware options, as well as workflows.  Filing a report helps.

    • You're assuming I haven't! I sent a bunch of crash reports and details of what was happening.

    "Such as the way they bang on about you only paying once, but 'enjoy' forever. Yet the next year they change the product version number and charge again for it, or even cease development altogether, as they did with the Creative Kit products."

    The software purchase you buy can be enjoyed forever. Simply keep your computer on one of the supported operating systems and use a supported camera.  Skylum releases multiple free updates for both performance and features as well as numerous free looks and LUTs for download in the marketplace to give you fresh options.

    However, from time to time there are NEW upgrades that add NEW features.  These are offered at a discount to customers and they are an optional purchase.  If you don't want the new features, stay put with the application version you have.  It will continue to work.

    As far as the Creative Kit products, yes application all eventually end.  However, those apps all still launch and I use some of them today.  What is it you're missing or unable to do with them?

    "I don't have an objection to the buy a product - get a few bug 'updates' for free - pay for an 'upgrade' to the next full version cycle. But that's not what they imply when you buy a product, I'm expecting to buy Aurora, or Luminar, and not have to pay again for as long as I want to use that product - calling it Aurora 2019, or Luminar 2018 and adding a few new features isn't really playing by the rules IMHO. It's certainly not helping with my trust and respect for Skylum."

    The product page says "No Subscription, Own and Enjoy" which is fully true.

    It also says Luminar 3. Pay Once and Enjoy Forever.  That is also true.  But it is not promising free updates forever and all new features.  It's trying to say that you own the software and can run it for as long as you want.  For example I have an old MacBook Air.  It's frozen at OS 10.7.  It still boots.  It still runs.  But Apple won't let me upgrade it to newer OS because of hardware limitations.    But I still own it, it still works, and my son uses it often.

    • That's not a new concept though, all software was bought on that basis for many years. You could nearly always use software until OS updates prevented it (although some did have a time limited license too)


    I get the semantics and that this can be misunderstood.  The team is looking to add clarity here.

    • That is exactly my point. The rest of it doesn't matter, I appreciate that software requires hours of work, and creative ability, I appreciate it costs. However, I have bought other similar software, for example Topaz plugins, which I paid for many years ago, and have gone through a few upgrades over that time, but I have not had to pay any more to continue using it throughout the upgrade process, but that's what they promised. OTOH, I have bought upgrades for other apps too, iPhoto (when it was charged for), Aperture, Lightroom and Graphic Converter are a few. But they make it clear that 'updates' are included in the purchase prices for a given version, and that 'upgrades' are chargeable.
    • My OS is currently the most up-to-date that Apple provides. My camera is not so up-to-date. 


    they also made Luminar 3 a free upgrade to Luminar 2018.

    • As they should have done, we were not provided with the product we paid for in the first place - I had already paid for the upgrade from Luminar to Luminar 2018, and did that very much based on the promised new features.
    • I really dislike the use of the term 'free' in the context of 'updates' to software too. They aren't 'free', we paid for them when we bought the software (it's nearly as bad as using 'awesome' too often).

    Even if we do get a working DAM eventually, I'm not actually sure I can trust Skylum anymore, how long will it work properly, how long will they continue developing Luminar before abandoning it, or changing to a 'new' different product.

    Both Aurora HDR and Luminar have multiple updates planned.  You can also see the Luminar roadmap which ius published here – https://skylum.com/luminar/roadmap

    • The roadmap does not interest me, not when we have seen so many broken promises over the last 18 months, how can I possibly believe any of it, when nothing promised has been delivered for so long now.
    • You may think I'm just whining and whinging, but the truth is I'm frustrated and annoyed that Skylum are simply not learning anything at all from their mistakes. They have products that can be so brilliant in some ways, yet fail so badly in others. I could have requested a refund a long time ago, but I chose not to. Instead I chose to trust that they could deliver the product I'd bought. I have liked so many of the products produced by MacPhun/Skylum for years, and I am happy to see some healthy competition in the Mac software marketplace. I want Skylum to succeed, and I want Luminar to be a great product, and a serious contender in the DAM/Editor marketplace.
    • Skylum are playing the anti-subscription game, and it's pushing the ethics to the limit.
    • To be honest, as an end consumer, the problems of development don't concern me (and as I mentioned elsewhere, Apple do provide quite strict developer guidelines, and Apple hardware is pretty consistent. I expect a product that delivers the features and 'benefits' that were advertised.
    • In all of this, I have learnt one thing for sure, and that's not to buy into a promise.
    • (Apologies for using the bullet points, I couldn't see any other way to separate quoted text here).
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    Zach Wagner

    I'd like to say I've really enjoyed reading this discussion. I don't pretend to know a damned thing as it relates to software engineering, but I will say that I've used a lot of photo editing software in my time. 

    I just updated to the latest version, and the process was smooth and painless. Luminar is running faster, now supports my camera, and all is good in my world. It's pretty obvious that consumers and developers alike are struggling with the vast array of (often personally created... I built my own pc) differing systems out there. Luckily for myself, while the software certainly has had some issues, it mostly runs pretty well for me, and my computer at this point is nothing close to what anyone who knows might call 'high end'. Luminar 3 has really never crashed for me (though some serious patience has been employed in a few instances... where another may have said 'Well that crashed' and rebooted, I simply said 'Well I'll go get another cup of coffee and see what happens here in a minute...'). 

    For me, overall, I've enjoyed the experience of using Luminar and it feels so much more organic to me than Lightroom (which I used for years) or Capture One (which was used for a year or so when I first became a Fuji user and LR was obliterating the raw files). It has, as hyperbolic as this may sound, helped me enjoy shooting again, plainly because I am as excited to edit as I am to shoot, and that's important to me. Would/could I use Luminar if I were still shooting weddings/as a professional? I'm not sure. With the way it is running now I think that I probably could. But I also have stopped throwing thousands of files at a time at my editing software so who knows.

    But for someone who shoots because they love to shoot, and edits because they love to edit, for themselves, I can say that Luminar is easily my choice for editing software. They have done what few others have been capable of doing in my opinion, and that is make post processing truly enjoyable. It goes without saying that YMMV here, my opinion is my own and based on only my experience.

    In closing, thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread... I've really enjoyed reading the conversation, and I think there have been so many great points made on all sides. I hope the update works well for all and helps to alleviate at least some of the problems mentioned here. And thanks to the Skylum staff who have contributed. I appreciate their time and efforts.

    Cheers.

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    Anastasia Davis

    Hi Zach! Thanks for sharing your opinion with us. Its good to hear that you are enjoying Luminar :)

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