Luminar 3, same response, next update will be better... 

Comments

65 comments

  • Avatar
    Jacques Demers

    I completely agree with you. Its always the next update and they are always sorry for the inconveniences. Also It took forever to make the adjustable gradient filter work properly.

    4
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Dennis Alden

    I'm afraid I have to add my two cents here too.

    @Colin In my opinion (your mileage obviously varies) having a DAM product that works 'as sweet as a nut' on a system with 4K images is about as useful as a chocolate teapot. It needs to run 'sweet as a nut' on at least 400K images if it is intended to be a professional quality DAM.

    If the product is aimed squarely at the 'occasional' photographer who might have a few thousand images then fine - I have no problem with that - BUT the marketing should clearly state that.

    Like Mr. Wuensch I am a professional software developer and I find it outrageous that this product was released in the state that it was. That, and the fact that with all the known issues it is still be sold to an unsuspecting public, has certainly shaken my confidence in Skylum as a company.

    I await the end of the month with interest but knowing how software development timescales tend to extend way beyond what was promised (and still not deliver what was promised!) I really cannot see Luminar being a viable DAM product for at least a year, although I will be very happy to be proved wrong :-)

     

     

    4
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    K.G. Wuensch

    Don‘t think the Mac version is that much better - it‘s just botched in different ways... And to think I recommended this POS once, it has brought me a lot of loss of credibility doing so!

    3
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    K.G. Wuensch

    @Colin, I am unfortunately not alone, I have recommended Luminar to friends and some of them unfortunately bought the POS... I have already bailed and got my refund but as a software developer myself it falls to me to support the above friends when they have problems with the software I advised them to buy... So I test every release to see which problems have been solved but it's not looking good, instead of concentrating on correcting the bugs they are spending a lot of effort to include new functions and don't fix long standing bugs (there are serious issues that have been breaking Luminar 2018 for me as far back as November 2017 which still are unsolved)...

    3
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Dennis Alden

    @Colin - You do not need to read my posts - and I WILL continue to 'bang on' about Skylums lack of professionalism as I see fit - if you do not like my opinion jog on. When I purchased the software I saw nothing that informed me that I was being an unpaid beta tester.

    3
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Winfield Terry

    @Colin you keep defending Skylum when anyone who has any IT background will tell you there is no way this product should have launched as a production release and paid version.  Some can excuse the DAM functionality not working properly, it's as you said 1st generation but they have done more than release a DAM that doesn't work properly. 

    The editing aspect of the software is unusable to do any type of serious editing.  You can't use the sky AI without losing the ability to edit the picture again at a later time, you have no shortcut keys to even change a brush size forcing you to manually use the slider to change size which is time consuming.  Try and do some clone work in the product, you can't pick a new sampling area without clicking done and then opening a new clone session.  The CORE of the product is an image editor and it fails miserably at that.  2018 was much better at what it did and I'm shocked to see how poorly they rolled the editor into Luminar 3.  It is almost like nobody did any beta testing on this product because the fundamental failures are so glaring.  Luckily my LR sub is paid through June so I can afford to wait and see how quickly they address the shortcomings.  

    3
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    michael durkin

    I so agree,

    these people are little more than con artists,  peddling ‘untruths’ in order to pimp their wares to us unsuspecting mugs. It’s the same faces that crop up whatever the photographic product though. It would seem they build up a substantial following but why? Surely not simply to peddle their presets ect. But then, we are constantly assured they have ‘no connection’ with the software owners.......

    Colin; I experienced the same scam with ON1. Utube is also loosing it’s creditability with me – infested with adverts every few seconds, now the pimping of a ‘Premium Service’.  I so admired Google for utube.  It was/still is,  truly one of the best platforms for the man on the street to be heard,  and they never demanded any payment.  I admired and supported them so much for that.

    Not now: not content with the vast profits they make they have allowed it to descend into a swamp where the con artist can and does operate with complete confidence.

    The above rant is of course, only my own feelings on utube.

    3
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Colin Grant

    With respect it was always going to be a DAM, they even said that way back when Neptune was launched, They changed to to Library when they realised they were not making the cut. Why does everyone try and justify this complete catastrophe. Admit to it and move on and put it right. How long have you worked for Skylum, Vanelli?

    The Education section of the website looks good. That is a great value initiative.

    3
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Colin Grant

    @Vanelli, you came on board in 2019. Luminar Neptune was launched in 2017. You have missed a lot of the fun (or Phun even). Macphun were indeed Mac only and they were doing ok, then Skylum and .........oh dear. To be honest I cannot think of any training vids I need at the moment as I only use L3 as a plugin to Lr and even then I use Nik more as it has superior masking via control points and is not buggy or resource hungry. The thing is there is so much wrong and so much missing that the only answer we now get is "it will be fixed in a future update" or "I'll pass that on to our devs". That all comes across as help-desk do nothing speak! We are all getting bored with it - we paid for our software and want it to do what it says on the tin. That list of things to be done must be getting longer and longer. Where will it end, when and indeed how!

    I love the Luminar concept. I find the editing approach easy to understand and use. Brand loyalty cannot last forever however, not when its foundation is a flimsy product that seems stuck on a merry-go-round of over selling and under performing.

    3
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Colin Grant

    @Robert. I have seen the roadmap. It is meaningless as they just keep moving dates or give such broad targets that the map is worthless. And the releases that come out are poor. I see there has already been some adverse comment from those who have advance access to 3.0.2. I can never trust Skylum to deliver or to deliver quality. It will take something huge to make me feel comfortable with leaving my photography assets in their care.

    3
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    K.G. Wuensch

    @Vance, I would be very weary about any of the bugs happening later - because then the damage will be greater, possibly insurmountable. So I would warn against it's use, especially if it has been a gift by me (I would exchange it for a year's worth of LR+PS subscription immediately)...

    2
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    K.G. Wuensch

    @Colin, it's not much better on MacOS. It's horribly broken there too - just there are different bugs and glaring design mistakes...

    2
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Winfield Terry

    I am waiting also as well, but to be honest their ability to hit deadlines is less than stellar so I'm not holding my breath for this early Feb. release.  No doubt it will eventually happen and since I have had it since 2018 version I am way past my refund deadline, not that I would seek one as the price of the product is incredibly inexpensive.  I was looking for a way to ditch Adobe creative suite and Lumiar along with Affinity Photo were my LR and PS replacements.  I just do my edits in the 2018 version as you can run them side by side and LR is my DAM for the moment. 

    I do however disagree with you on rehashing things as I think it could be beneficial to folks who either recently purchased or are thinking about it so they can see what is wrong and right with the product.  Keeping a post current and on the front page helps it from getting buried and not seen.  

    2
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    michael durkin

    Personally I don't care (within a reasonable time) when the promised 'update' arrives. We all know we'll be bitterly disappointed with it any way so I’d suggest we stop whining on about it and accept we’ve been taken for er, silly fellows - - much like the investors who also put their money in to finance this disaster.

    Great fun though!

    2
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Colin Grant

    They only do it to make money, they are associates or whatever they are called I guess and they make their few % commission. I admired MattK when he distanced himself from ON1 and went back to where his roots are, to the software he really uses. Yes he still does a few bits and pieces for ON1 but he does not plug it. Jim Nix and others should in the name of decency withdraw from the arena if, in reality, they see the problems others are experiencing. At the very least they should highlight them but I still do not understand why L3 works ok for some and not for others (I have only had two crashes, even when playing with that so called Library)). Maybe someone should ask Jim why he persists?

    2
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    michael durkin

    Well I've had enough of it.

    I'm so mad about this - the fact that I've been stupid enough to beleive these con artists that should you care to go over to Jim Nix's utube channel you can read a responce to his pimping from me.

    2
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Kert

    Well - now this "Jesus patch" that is supposedly making everything all right is coming in "early February". Although to be frank, I am not holding my breath over it really pulling off what they claim it will do.

    I am a bit salty. Not because of having bought the program as all I did was download a trial (which will run out on 10th Feb) so I have not spent anything on this program (yet), but because I see very nice ideas in the program but the implementation and problems encountered has been frustrating enough to leave a bit bad taste in my mouth. I have not experienced the "golden age" of 2018 version which supposedly were working fine. So all I have seen is current Luminar 3 implementation which could be roughly described as an "trainwreck" in my humble opinion.

     

    The "AI" features are not really AI - they are just preset filters with which you can slap the scene and these have zero intelligence. The same thing is called "Actions" in ACDSee and nowadays you can even create your own in there. Unlike Luminar using them in there does not lock you away from some of the controls. While by marketing materials it leaves an impression these "AI" filters are something like Lightroom Sensei, which basically analyzes the image and slaps it with a preset filter depending on what it thinks the scene is.

     

    The DAM module is not working. At least not when you have enough images to have actually use for one. I do expect them to improve its performance noticeably in upcoming patch, but features wise it seems to be still falling short compared to the other things I have access to (Lightroom 6, ACDSee Ultimate 2018). File structure wise the DAM implementation seems to be picking up the aspects I most dislike in other programs I have. On one hand the sloppy attitude towards disk space from Lightroom (there was like 80 000 small files after few quick edits, vs ~200 000 small files from Lightroom 6 after it running facial reqonition on 107 000 images) - and unlike Lightroom I did not find an option anywhere to make it clear up after itself. While ACDSee has few other issues that annoy me and that is the main reason why I'm fishing around for alternatives.

     

    But as it stands I do not see myself buying this program even if the initial performance issues will be addressed to some extent. Perhaps, if I do not find anything to do what I want it to do exactly by the summer I'll write their support and ask for another trial sometime mid summer. Hoping that they have managed to get in the patches needed to address the most critical issues by then. The next patch - there is just so many things - I dont believe they manage to address all of them so fast.

    2
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Colin Grant

    @Robert, we were all expecting some sort of viable alternative to Lr (and others) but not just in terms of a DAM but also in relation to the editing tools available. We have neither. What we have is a very flaky file browser with little functionality and an editor that does not even have what are now basic masking tools (luminosity, colour range for instance). Look where ON1 is and then look at Luminar. Now I am no ON1 fan but they sure have Luminar flat footed and remember Luminar was launched with the Neptune version, so this is not new software. Yet, rather surprisingly we find that Luminar project files do not work in this new version 3. I thank you re trying to rationalise a relationship between Lr and the Library but why should I want to do that? The Library does not have search, albums, smart albums, keywords  - the list goes on. What sort of Library is that - one where you cannot find or reference anything. Sorry but I am not about to adopt a workflow just so I can use inferior software in lieu of software that is far better at the moment.

    2
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Winfield Terry

    Thanks for the shortcut list, too bad they don't work on the windows version.  You can't change brush size with the bracket keys, they already said it should be fixed in the upcoming release which I look forward to.  I think the biggest issue is they released a product that broke the underlying editing capabilities from the 2018 version in order to release a DAM or library browser as you call it.  What type of beta testing went on, because I found all these issues within an hour of using the application.  I edited a photo then came back later to it and saw I was unable to edit it again.  I tried to use the brush tool only to find the common ][ keys didn't change the size.  Tried to clone stamp an item out only to realize you couldn't select an additional sample point without first clicking done, then going back into the clone tool again which basically makes cloning useless.  

    The entire application seems rushed to market to make some deadline only to deliver and SELL a broken product on Windows.  I can't speak to MAC but using it as a stand alone application on Windows it is extremely flawed.  If I hadn't already paid for 2018 long ago I'd be even more disappointed.  

    Skylum should really look at how ON1 does their catalog and copy that model.  

    2
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    K.G. Wuensch

    @Vanelli, if "The co-founders, CEO and even the head of engineering are all avid photographers that love shooting and processing their images. " is true then they are possibly better photographers than software designers and developers because Luminar is so full of conceptual errors that it beggars belief!

    2
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Kert

    The negativity is well deserved in this case.

     

    This is a program which promises to do great many things and actually fails to do most of these things because as soon as you have more than few hundred images it just fails. Spectacularly.

     

    There is no real excuse for putting out the product in such a broken shape. They had a 2018 version which was, supposedly, working reasonably well, just did not have DAM module. They should have keep to it and release the version with DAM module when its actually usable. Supposedly late Jan or early Feb 2019. We will see how much issues this promised Jesus patch will actually save.

     

    They are not some kind of indy setup or underdog. They had a more or less properly working product and have been at it for years. It is just not possible that the current issues with the DAM module did not get noticed during even a basic Q&A. Jet they have chosen to put out product like it is currently.

    1
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    michael durkin

    But it's so disappointing and frustrating.  I've just finished some photos in Luminar - albeit the 2018 version and it behaved superbly, I was able to do some great edits.  Other times it just refuses to play. 

    What is so sad is that these probably not so complicated bugs as they pertain to us poor windows users will never be addressed now that the infamous, unwanted DAM and the Mac version will demand all resources are thrown at them.

    I’d love to see some UTuber do a series featuring Luminar on a windows machine rather than on one of the super secret Mac machines that apparently perform without the merest hitch the present bunch apparently use. What it must be to own a computer like that! Ah well, we can only dream...

    1
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Colin Grant

    The world we live in unfortunately. There is no control over what is posted on YouTube really, not in terms of the quality of the information and whether that info is being used for sales and marketing purposes. Skylum's associates and vast number of ambassadors (?) do not do this for fun, they do it to make money out of a product that perhaps has a more naive following than the likes of Adobe and Phase One. It is a disgrace but there are those who will say regulation is bad and to embrace it will kill the internet. I do not share that view. 

    As you say @michael, Skylum are not the only one but at least, taking ON1 as an example, some have improved along the way. Is there then hope?

    1
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Robert Vanelli


    @Jacques Demers, I'm glad you asked about the Adjustable Gradient filter.

    My name is Vanelli, I'm part of Skylum's Education Team and I'm here to help. The Education Team is posting a full tutorial on how to use the Filter. For now, I created an unlisted sample for you (and members of this group). I hope it helps. The full video is scheduled to release this month. I added the link.

    https://youtu.be/KEsoYgAyf3g 

    You can find a full list of videos in the Education section of the Skylum Website.: https://skylum.com/edu/luminar

     

     

    1
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Winfield Terry

    This is a confusing post for us window users, so are you saying we got a product that does not have the DAM?  Is this a beta release because is sure feels like it.  Right now I only use Luminar 3 when I have to and only in quick edit mode.  I still have my LR/PS subscription until features like hotkeys, cloning and the host of other things are worked out in v3.  I am also testing out ON1 Photo Raw on a 30 day trial and to be honest it's at least a very functional product.  I actually prefer how they handle the catalog feature where it is more of a browser as I am pretty good about creating folder structures on my HDD and know where most of the images reside so really don't need much help.  Mainly DAM is used to keyword, rank and cull.  All supported in ON1 including the migrate LR catalog to ON1 which I tested on a small 2300 image catalog and it brought over rankings, edits etc.  I had high hopes for luminar but this has to be the worst release I have ever seen and I'm not willing to bet they make the 2/9 date for this magic update to fix these issues. The good thing is it has encouraged me to look around and check out other products.  

    1
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    K.G. Wuensch

    @Robert, how do you fix the problem that the RAW filter is affected by the filter strength slider on the layer? That's a complete blocker because the filter strength affects white balance. And how do you disable the automatic noise reduction in the RAW filter? If I were you I wouldn't promote a product with such conceptual flaws!

    1
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    K.G. Wuensch

    @Vanelli "Once you add a folder, any images you add to that folder from that point on will appear in Libraries." ROTFLSC - that only works if you have a really really simplistic image organisation on your built in disk. I have had this break the moment I imported my first small set of images - and the library never recovered, so that I had to delete it numerous times during my attempts to make this work. Sorry, you need a defined time of import, anything else risks losing images or edits to the fruitless attempts to keep file system and database in synchronisation - that's a problem that will break Luminar's neck if they don't abandon this!

    1
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    K.G. Wuensch

    @Vanelli/Robert (why did you change your name to hide behind a pseudonym - a not so classy move that  brings your efforts into disrepute in my eyes). I indeed have detailed knowledge about RAW files, I have worked with RawTherapee (and have tried a few but unfruitful ideas in demosaicing) and supported their developers by providing calibration shots for various cameras (since Luminar uses libraw and my efforts have made it into that library in the end you are benefiting from my efforts too). I liked Luminar Neptune except for one thing, their ludicrous RAW conversion settings. Then they released Luminar 2018, basically a bug ridden mess but with some nice improvements - only to slam dunk that version into the trash when they changed RAW conversion several times over the lifetime of the product and adding an uncontrollable noise reduction and their support had nothing better to do than to say - that's how it is, like it or not. Well I do not like it because it's insane if the software arbitrarily decides when a shot needs an uncontrollable, detail destroying noise reduction - that's not something you could ever use as a DAM and you must not base a workflow on that, because whenever the automatism is triggered that workflow will be invalid, so it's unreliable and that's a death sentence for a workflow tool all by itself!

    As is the horrific (style over function) library. When shots from a series are shown at widely varying sizes in the overview then you can never make an unbiased selection because size matters and if an image out of a series is shown at almost twice the size just to fill the line (because of varying aspect crops or orientations) then that image, even if it's not the best of the series will be preferred in any selection process. That's how our brains work - and that's why every DAM that worth a dime shows images in a fixed size grid with neutral background so that you can make the important decision unbiased by such unavoidable thought processes!

    And then comes the RAW filter - since when is white balance something that can be applied at varying strength? It's an absolute value that must never ever be changed by any filter strength. Or else answer the question what a white balance of 5500°K means when applied at 55% strength? Since layers in Luminar are virtually useless (in the way they are rendered) you also can't resort to putting the RAW filter on it's own layer.

    So in short: RAW filter botched numerous times, libary a botch (I can with ease bring it to a crash because of the conceptually flawed attempt at keeping file system and database in sync, you lose all your edits within seconds if you are not careful what you do on the file system side) and so are the layers and the before/after view that made Luminar Neptune such a joy is now rendered useless too because on the left you always have your initial image...

    So Luminar has developed from a nice plugin that had some value (the noise reduction personality in Luminar Neptune was pure genius how it worked with the before/after showing clearly how strong a filter you could risk without destroying the details) to a useless gimmick overloaded file browser that crashes a lot and has not a single function that is not either conceptually ludicrous or implemented badly!

    1
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    K.G. Wuensch

    @Winfield, the Windows version is worse but the MacOS version isn't that much better. There they for example - in the attempt to uniquely identify the images - they have used the hardware ID of the drive the images are stored on in their database, thus making backups a moot point because without patching the database to reflect the new hardware ID you could never get the library to restore on new hardware after a defect. I happen to have the tools and knowledge necessary to do so but to even come up with such a flawed concept shows how out of their depths the developers are.

    1
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    K.G. Wuensch

    @Vanelli, yes I doubt your integrity because of the change in name I don‘t know to be yours because you were listed under a clearly recognizable name that changed to a pseudonym that means nothing to anyone not knowing you! I responded to a Robert that suddenly disappears, so how is anyone going to follow that disussion? 

    1
    Comment actions Permalink

Please sign in to leave a comment.