Luminar 3, same response, next update will be better... 

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    K.G. Wuensch

    @michael durkin, you hit the nail on the head. I can't understand how the Skylum shills on youtube can still uphold the mantra: "Luminar is great". Some of them even sell their presets (now "looks") and try to make money from the Luminar users. They (like Serge Ramelli and that Nix guy) have lost their credibility with me and a lot of other users because of this link to Skylum.

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    Colin Grant

    They only do it to make money, they are associates or whatever they are called I guess and they make their few % commission. I admired MattK when he distanced himself from ON1 and went back to where his roots are, to the software he really uses. Yes he still does a few bits and pieces for ON1 but he does not plug it. Jim Nix and others should in the name of decency withdraw from the arena if, in reality, they see the problems others are experiencing. At the very least they should highlight them but I still do not understand why L3 works ok for some and not for others (I have only had two crashes, even when playing with that so called Library)). Maybe someone should ask Jim why he persists?

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    michael durkin

    I so agree,

    these people are little more than con artists,  peddling ‘untruths’ in order to pimp their wares to us unsuspecting mugs. It’s the same faces that crop up whatever the photographic product though. It would seem they build up a substantial following but why? Surely not simply to peddle their presets ect. But then, we are constantly assured they have ‘no connection’ with the software owners.......

    Colin; I experienced the same scam with ON1. Utube is also loosing it’s creditability with me – infested with adverts every few seconds, now the pimping of a ‘Premium Service’.  I so admired Google for utube.  It was/still is,  truly one of the best platforms for the man on the street to be heard,  and they never demanded any payment.  I admired and supported them so much for that.

    Not now: not content with the vast profits they make they have allowed it to descend into a swamp where the con artist can and does operate with complete confidence.

    The above rant is of course, only my own feelings on utube.

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    Colin Grant

    The world we live in unfortunately. There is no control over what is posted on YouTube really, not in terms of the quality of the information and whether that info is being used for sales and marketing purposes. Skylum's associates and vast number of ambassadors (?) do not do this for fun, they do it to make money out of a product that perhaps has a more naive following than the likes of Adobe and Phase One. It is a disgrace but there are those who will say regulation is bad and to embrace it will kill the internet. I do not share that view. 

    As you say @michael, Skylum are not the only one but at least, taking ON1 as an example, some have improved along the way. Is there then hope?

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    michael durkin

    Well I've had enough of it.

    I'm so mad about this - the fact that I've been stupid enough to beleive these con artists that should you care to go over to Jim Nix's utube channel you can read a responce to his pimping from me.

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    Kert

    Well - now this "Jesus patch" that is supposedly making everything all right is coming in "early February". Although to be frank, I am not holding my breath over it really pulling off what they claim it will do.

    I am a bit salty. Not because of having bought the program as all I did was download a trial (which will run out on 10th Feb) so I have not spent anything on this program (yet), but because I see very nice ideas in the program but the implementation and problems encountered has been frustrating enough to leave a bit bad taste in my mouth. I have not experienced the "golden age" of 2018 version which supposedly were working fine. So all I have seen is current Luminar 3 implementation which could be roughly described as an "trainwreck" in my humble opinion.

     

    The "AI" features are not really AI - they are just preset filters with which you can slap the scene and these have zero intelligence. The same thing is called "Actions" in ACDSee and nowadays you can even create your own in there. Unlike Luminar using them in there does not lock you away from some of the controls. While by marketing materials it leaves an impression these "AI" filters are something like Lightroom Sensei, which basically analyzes the image and slaps it with a preset filter depending on what it thinks the scene is.

     

    The DAM module is not working. At least not when you have enough images to have actually use for one. I do expect them to improve its performance noticeably in upcoming patch, but features wise it seems to be still falling short compared to the other things I have access to (Lightroom 6, ACDSee Ultimate 2018). File structure wise the DAM implementation seems to be picking up the aspects I most dislike in other programs I have. On one hand the sloppy attitude towards disk space from Lightroom (there was like 80 000 small files after few quick edits, vs ~200 000 small files from Lightroom 6 after it running facial reqonition on 107 000 images) - and unlike Lightroom I did not find an option anywhere to make it clear up after itself. While ACDSee has few other issues that annoy me and that is the main reason why I'm fishing around for alternatives.

     

    But as it stands I do not see myself buying this program even if the initial performance issues will be addressed to some extent. Perhaps, if I do not find anything to do what I want it to do exactly by the summer I'll write their support and ask for another trial sometime mid summer. Hoping that they have managed to get in the patches needed to address the most critical issues by then. The next patch - there is just so many things - I dont believe they manage to address all of them so fast.

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    K.G. Wuensch

    @michael, looks as if your comment is gone already, can't seem to find it...

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    Robert Vanelli


    @Jacques Demers, I'm glad you asked about the Adjustable Gradient filter.

    My name is Vanelli, I'm part of Skylum's Education Team and I'm here to help. The Education Team is posting a full tutorial on how to use the Filter. For now, I created an unlisted sample for you (and members of this group). I hope it helps. The full video is scheduled to release this month. I added the link.

    https://youtu.be/KEsoYgAyf3g 

    You can find a full list of videos in the Education section of the Skylum Website.: https://skylum.com/edu/luminar

     

     

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    Robert Vanelli

    @Colin Grant, @michael durkin, @Mike Miles, @K.G. Wuensch, @Kent

    Link to Education material from Skylum's Education Team: http://bit.ly/2Sqpgmv

    I hope you don't mind me joining this very spirited thread. My name is Vanelli and I'm part of Skylum's Education Team. I'm still a working sports and portrait photographer based in Florida but I also spend a little over 40hrs a week creating Education content for Skylum. I'm here to help. 

    The DAM (Digital Asset Manager) hasn't been released yet. All of us received Libraries, taking us one step closer. Now, I have to admit, I totally misread my fellow Windows users. I was asked if we should wait before releasing Libraries, I said no way I want it now and I'm willing to wait for updates. Most didn't agree, that's on me. This is how I currently use Luminar 3 until the DAM is available. 

    I painfully still let Lightroom import and rename my images. Then I create a Library in Luminar 3 and add the folder to it. When I only want to work on a single image, I use the Open Image for Quick Edit Feature.  I created several Sport's Grits Looks that are currently used by Al Diaz for the Miami Dolphins, University of Miami, Florida Marlins and so on. Guy's I'm originally from Syracuse NY, so please don't hold any of these teams against me. He needed the Look, I gave it to him. 

    So I occasionally use Luminar 3 much like I did when it was a plugin in BUT I like that I can view my images in Libraries. Photoshop is used when I need to repair an image or as a layout program to create posters., Luminar is used when I want to develop an image or be creative.

    Now, your turn, how do you want to use Luminar? Remember, I'm here to help. This is on my time, not the companies time. 

    Here are some Educational videos the team put together. If you have a feature you would like us to explore, please let us know. Abba Shapiro and I will be at WPPI this month, (February) the week of the 25 and I'll be teaching at Photoshop World May 30th - June 1st, 2019 in Orlando. If you see us, please stop and say hi.  

     

     

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    Winfield Terry

    This is a confusing post for us window users, so are you saying we got a product that does not have the DAM?  Is this a beta release because is sure feels like it.  Right now I only use Luminar 3 when I have to and only in quick edit mode.  I still have my LR/PS subscription until features like hotkeys, cloning and the host of other things are worked out in v3.  I am also testing out ON1 Photo Raw on a 30 day trial and to be honest it's at least a very functional product.  I actually prefer how they handle the catalog feature where it is more of a browser as I am pretty good about creating folder structures on my HDD and know where most of the images reside so really don't need much help.  Mainly DAM is used to keyword, rank and cull.  All supported in ON1 including the migrate LR catalog to ON1 which I tested on a small 2300 image catalog and it brought over rankings, edits etc.  I had high hopes for luminar but this has to be the worst release I have ever seen and I'm not willing to bet they make the 2/9 date for this magic update to fix these issues. The good thing is it has encouraged me to look around and check out other products.  

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    K.G. Wuensch

    @Robert, how do you fix the problem that the RAW filter is affected by the filter strength slider on the layer? That's a complete blocker because the filter strength affects white balance. And how do you disable the automatic noise reduction in the RAW filter? If I were you I wouldn't promote a product with such conceptual flaws!

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    Colin Grant

    @Robert, we were all expecting some sort of viable alternative to Lr (and others) but not just in terms of a DAM but also in relation to the editing tools available. We have neither. What we have is a very flaky file browser with little functionality and an editor that does not even have what are now basic masking tools (luminosity, colour range for instance). Look where ON1 is and then look at Luminar. Now I am no ON1 fan but they sure have Luminar flat footed and remember Luminar was launched with the Neptune version, so this is not new software. Yet, rather surprisingly we find that Luminar project files do not work in this new version 3. I thank you re trying to rationalise a relationship between Lr and the Library but why should I want to do that? The Library does not have search, albums, smart albums, keywords  - the list goes on. What sort of Library is that - one where you cannot find or reference anything. Sorry but I am not about to adopt a workflow just so I can use inferior software in lieu of software that is far better at the moment.

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    Robert Vanelli

    @Winfield Terry Thanks for the replying.

    Skylum has always promoted this version is with Libraries taking us one step closer to a full DAM. I questioned it too, It feels like a DAM. But as you mentioned, true DAM offers many extra features -- import with renaming, keywords, adding metadata plus more. Here is a ROADMAP link to Luminar 3: https://skylum.com/luminar/roadmap 

    This is a download link to the current shortcut keys (hotkeys) : http://bit.ly/L3ShortcutKey

    Skylum Education Site: http://bit.ly/LuminarEDU

    I too like how it handles files. Once you add a folder, any images you add to that folder from that point on will appear in Libraries. This saves me time answering... "Oh no Lightroom lost my images". They are there, but the person didn't add them in Lightroom so they have to Sync the folder. Simple for us but not for most. 

    I like the direction Luminar is heading and soon, I'll completely replace Lightroom. Just the editing features alone are incredible. I hope this helps.  

    BTW: What type of photography do you shoot most?

     

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    Colin Grant

    With respect it was always going to be a DAM, they even said that way back when Neptune was launched, They changed to to Library when they realised they were not making the cut. Why does everyone try and justify this complete catastrophe. Admit to it and move on and put it right. How long have you worked for Skylum, Vanelli?

    The Education section of the website looks good. That is a great value initiative.

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    K.G. Wuensch

    @Vanelli "Once you add a folder, any images you add to that folder from that point on will appear in Libraries." ROTFLSC - that only works if you have a really really simplistic image organisation on your built in disk. I have had this break the moment I imported my first small set of images - and the library never recovered, so that I had to delete it numerous times during my attempts to make this work. Sorry, you need a defined time of import, anything else risks losing images or edits to the fruitless attempts to keep file system and database in synchronisation - that's a problem that will break Luminar's neck if they don't abandon this!

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    Robert Vanelli

    @K.G. Wuensch 

    I understand your frustration but remember, I'm here to help. You sound like you have advanced knowledge of RAW. I flagged this for support to give guidance. 

    Personal note. I've taught, written and help develop a lot of plugins over the years. I love being a part of something global. Skylum has given me this opportunity and I fully embrace it. You sound very tech savvy, so imagine, as a photographer, you have a direct pipeline to the core team that's developing the software you use to make a living. They ask for your input or watch how you use the software, then make changes. That's the position I'm in. Now, I don't have a problem sharing my connections with friends that have questions. If it's something that will benefit the masses, I create videos or write articles on it to help others. You brought up a good question about RAW. I'll pass it along. I can't promise a date when it's answered.

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    Robert Vanelli

    @Colin yes, it was always going to be a DAM. I was one of the Windows EDU members that pushed to get the software out even if it were in stages, I didn't realize how much extra work it takes to develop in Windows. Remember, this was a MAC only software. I'm sure you remember the days when Adobe first started with Photoshop. It was Mac only, then they added Windows. Every 18 months or so they would have a killer release but excluded Window users or a good 6 months. 

    ON1 has developed a lot over many years. I even have classes on it at LinkedIn Learning. I came on board on August 1, 2018. The co-founders, CEO and even the head of engineering are all avid photographers that love shooting and processing their images. This is great news for us Photographers. :) 

    Thanks, the Web team did a great job t revamping the EDU site. I'll pass it long. On a side note, what type of tutorials and articles do you like most? The EDU team is always looking for better ways to help. 

    Thanks for your reply. 

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    Winfield Terry

    Thanks for the shortcut list, too bad they don't work on the windows version.  You can't change brush size with the bracket keys, they already said it should be fixed in the upcoming release which I look forward to.  I think the biggest issue is they released a product that broke the underlying editing capabilities from the 2018 version in order to release a DAM or library browser as you call it.  What type of beta testing went on, because I found all these issues within an hour of using the application.  I edited a photo then came back later to it and saw I was unable to edit it again.  I tried to use the brush tool only to find the common ][ keys didn't change the size.  Tried to clone stamp an item out only to realize you couldn't select an additional sample point without first clicking done, then going back into the clone tool again which basically makes cloning useless.  

    The entire application seems rushed to market to make some deadline only to deliver and SELL a broken product on Windows.  I can't speak to MAC but using it as a stand alone application on Windows it is extremely flawed.  If I hadn't already paid for 2018 long ago I'd be even more disappointed.  

    Skylum should really look at how ON1 does their catalog and copy that model.  

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    K.G. Wuensch

    @Vanelli/Robert (why did you change your name to hide behind a pseudonym - a not so classy move that  brings your efforts into disrepute in my eyes). I indeed have detailed knowledge about RAW files, I have worked with RawTherapee (and have tried a few but unfruitful ideas in demosaicing) and supported their developers by providing calibration shots for various cameras (since Luminar uses libraw and my efforts have made it into that library in the end you are benefiting from my efforts too). I liked Luminar Neptune except for one thing, their ludicrous RAW conversion settings. Then they released Luminar 2018, basically a bug ridden mess but with some nice improvements - only to slam dunk that version into the trash when they changed RAW conversion several times over the lifetime of the product and adding an uncontrollable noise reduction and their support had nothing better to do than to say - that's how it is, like it or not. Well I do not like it because it's insane if the software arbitrarily decides when a shot needs an uncontrollable, detail destroying noise reduction - that's not something you could ever use as a DAM and you must not base a workflow on that, because whenever the automatism is triggered that workflow will be invalid, so it's unreliable and that's a death sentence for a workflow tool all by itself!

    As is the horrific (style over function) library. When shots from a series are shown at widely varying sizes in the overview then you can never make an unbiased selection because size matters and if an image out of a series is shown at almost twice the size just to fill the line (because of varying aspect crops or orientations) then that image, even if it's not the best of the series will be preferred in any selection process. That's how our brains work - and that's why every DAM that worth a dime shows images in a fixed size grid with neutral background so that you can make the important decision unbiased by such unavoidable thought processes!

    And then comes the RAW filter - since when is white balance something that can be applied at varying strength? It's an absolute value that must never ever be changed by any filter strength. Or else answer the question what a white balance of 5500°K means when applied at 55% strength? Since layers in Luminar are virtually useless (in the way they are rendered) you also can't resort to putting the RAW filter on it's own layer.

    So in short: RAW filter botched numerous times, libary a botch (I can with ease bring it to a crash because of the conceptually flawed attempt at keeping file system and database in sync, you lose all your edits within seconds if you are not careful what you do on the file system side) and so are the layers and the before/after view that made Luminar Neptune such a joy is now rendered useless too because on the left you always have your initial image...

    So Luminar has developed from a nice plugin that had some value (the noise reduction personality in Luminar Neptune was pure genius how it worked with the before/after showing clearly how strong a filter you could risk without destroying the details) to a useless gimmick overloaded file browser that crashes a lot and has not a single function that is not either conceptually ludicrous or implemented badly!

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    K.G. Wuensch

    @Vanelli, if "The co-founders, CEO and even the head of engineering are all avid photographers that love shooting and processing their images. " is true then they are possibly better photographers than software designers and developers because Luminar is so full of conceptual errors that it beggars belief!

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    K.G. Wuensch

    @Winfield, the Windows version is worse but the MacOS version isn't that much better. There they for example - in the attempt to uniquely identify the images - they have used the hardware ID of the drive the images are stored on in their database, thus making backups a moot point because without patching the database to reflect the new hardware ID you could never get the library to restore on new hardware after a defect. I happen to have the tools and knowledge necessary to do so but to even come up with such a flawed concept shows how out of their depths the developers are.

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    Colin Grant

    @Vanelli, you came on board in 2019. Luminar Neptune was launched in 2017. You have missed a lot of the fun (or Phun even). Macphun were indeed Mac only and they were doing ok, then Skylum and .........oh dear. To be honest I cannot think of any training vids I need at the moment as I only use L3 as a plugin to Lr and even then I use Nik more as it has superior masking via control points and is not buggy or resource hungry. The thing is there is so much wrong and so much missing that the only answer we now get is "it will be fixed in a future update" or "I'll pass that on to our devs". That all comes across as help-desk do nothing speak! We are all getting bored with it - we paid for our software and want it to do what it says on the tin. That list of things to be done must be getting longer and longer. Where will it end, when and indeed how!

    I love the Luminar concept. I find the editing approach easy to understand and use. Brand loyalty cannot last forever however, not when its foundation is a flimsy product that seems stuck on a merry-go-round of over selling and under performing.

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    Robert Vanelli

    @Colin Thanks for the start year catch. Luminar Looks is what got me excited to switch over. I use Looks now like I used NIK effect. Skylum has several former NIK employees. It sounds like you're on track using software to develop and enhance your images instead of trying to repair them. It's funny, I was never a fan of control pins in NIK BUT the majority of my friends were. I like the brush concept better, 

    Here is a ROADMAP link to Luminar 3: https://skylum.com/luminar/roadmap

     

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    Robert Vanelli

    @K.G. Wuensch Unbelievable!

    @Vanelli/Robert (why did you change your name to hide behind a pseudonym - a not so classy move that brings your efforts into disrepute in my eyes)

    For those who know me, know I only go by Vanelli. I changed my name on this forum for that reason. I stopped reading your post after the line where you insult my integrity. I'm on here during my time to help others. You are here trolling offering nothing but insults. This is not the forum for you. Again, unbelievable. 

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    K.G. Wuensch

    @Vanelli, yes I doubt your integrity because of the change in name I don‘t know to be yours because you were listed under a clearly recognizable name that changed to a pseudonym that means nothing to anyone not knowing you! I responded to a Robert that suddenly disappears, so how is anyone going to follow that disussion? 

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    Colin Grant

    @Robert. I have seen the roadmap. It is meaningless as they just keep moving dates or give such broad targets that the map is worthless. And the releases that come out are poor. I see there has already been some adverse comment from those who have advance access to 3.0.2. I can never trust Skylum to deliver or to deliver quality. It will take something huge to make me feel comfortable with leaving my photography assets in their care.

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    Robert Vanelli

    @Mike, I joined this thread to help answer questions, instead, I'm addressing a common negative tone I'm reading in this group. Before I get back to answering "How to" questions I would like to point out a few things. 

    Think back to the first release of Photoshop for Windows. I think I paid something like $590 and waited 6 months for updates and 18 months for full version upgrades. Did they have bugs, of course. 

    Now fast forward to today, Skylum offered Luminar 3 as a FREE upgrade to all users of Luminar and I think $20.00 for those that had old outdated MacPhun software. Not to mention the retail price for this $69.00 and you can install it on 5 of your computers. 

    If you have used Luminar 2018 and loved the Looks and Presets, use Luminar 2019 as a plugin. Is the DAM ready? No, so if you don't feel comfortable importing your images, use it as a plugin until you feel it's ready,

    I looked at the past history of MacPhun -- now Skylum -- and trust where they are heading, that's why I joined the Education team. Speaking of which Skylum has invested a lot into education and has a dedicated team to produce educational material which I'm proud to be a part of. 

    As for others slamming the engineering team. This team is hard at work and isn't slacking in the least. Including Windows has been a challenge that the team is embracing. Before you ask, yes it also affects Mac development. They want to keep the two very close in production.

    With all that said,if there is any help you need I'm here to help.  

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    Robert Vanelli

    @K.G. Wuensch again with the insult. 

    @Vanelli, yes I doubt your integrity because of the change in name

    All threads are easily found on here. Please step away from the computer and go out and photograph something. You have way too much negativity built up. I'm being sincere. After you photograph something that makes you happy please share it. I would like to see your style and offer help on editing concepts, even if you choose not to use Luminar. The concepts will work with most software. Please take me up on my offer. 

    If you would rather not post the image here, send it to vanelli@skyljum.com 

    It's late on this side of the world, I'm signing off. 

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    K.G. Wuensch

    @Robert (now this is improvement, no longer do we need to guess who is addressed in some older posts) - I am not in the slightest interested in your editing concepts (especially after seeing your images on Facebook)!

    As to Luminar - I hope your developers know that now that the genie is out of the bottle Luminar must preserve even the glaring bugs in terms of rendering because people may have created or bought Looks that rely on this botched rendering? So if they ever get around to fixing the noise reduction, the white balance being dependent on the filter strength, the position of the star burst simulation on rotated images, etc. - for old edits and old Looks that must still be retained while for new edits and new Looks the corrected algorithm must be used. If they don't do that they are effectively losing the edits people have made when Luminar 3 worked. Else even those that could use Luminar 3 in the past months will feel as if they got a kick in the teeth because their work will be nullified and they thus will incur a loss of time and money way beyond the small price they payed...

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    Colin Grant

    There is no need to get personal @K. Robert is just doing his job. We may feel Luminar is rubbish but that is no reason to attack’s Robert’s work or indeed Robert himself.

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