Upcoming Luminar updates

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    K.G. Wuensch

    The thing is they overestimated the available potential in customers by millions. Lightroom subscription is value for money so a lot of people simply continue using that. As am I, I liked Luminar as a plugin but that has thoroughly been sacrificed for the debacle they call library.

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    Tim Gillespie

    A little update.

    Purchased On1 and installed in on three computers so far.

    This thing is so fast, there is no way I will fire up Lightroom on these support computers any more. I still use it on the big graphic workstations and for the library. But probably not for long.

    Lightroom has been displaced as an every day management tool on client facing computers and on all web design stations.

    That is flippin huge! 

    Still want Skylum to succeed but there is a whole lot less pressure on me now. This has got to be a dagger, because there is a library function on this software and it is fast. It seems like everything they have been promising just showed up in a competing platform. Yikes!

    I think the Luminar develop engine is probably better, but this one works now.

    Now I patiently wait for the next Luminar release. I hear it will be Luminar 2020.

    One note on that. IT BETTER BE GOOD NOW!

    Gotta go learn a new program.

    Tim out!

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    Colin Grant

    Wish you well, Tim. I have had ON1 since 2017 but cannot get on with it. Hate the workflow and am not a huge fan of the raw develop engine either. The dam is ok but the catalogue is reported as flaky and there is no map module which kills it for me. Tried the AI masking last night and was not overly impressed. ON1 is I agree generlly ahead of Luminar, although I prefer editing in the latter. Neither will get me to move from Lr though, not yet anyway.

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    Andy H

    Fundamentally for me if Lightroom Classic wasn't so slow on my machine I'd still be using it too. I've used ON1 as my Lightroom alternative for 3 months now and after getting over the differences in workflow, I'm very happy with it and for my circumstances the performance and overall package is better than anything else out there (and I've tried them all). If the current trajectory of development continues I can see ON1 being the only solution I need. If they enhance their HDR module I can see that I wouldn't need Aurora HDR either. Anyway, I'm still rooting for Skylum to turn it around, but I'm getting less and less certain they will. Competition in the marketplace is great for us all.

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    Tim Gillespie

    You know, this brings up an interesting point. I am not subtracting anything. LR is still active on this computer.

    However, often times I need speed in edits for emails and texts. Fine art is secondary to speed and ease of use on some computers. These are usually quick creative outbursts that come and go with the breeze.

    When I develop for fine art, something I am going to actually print, which is far less than 1% of my images, I go to LR. I agree it is still the best. I have several editors and the entire creative suite, but nothing really to manage everything. I hate Bridge. So this is a big plus for me. I will continue to monitor this situation and probably pay more money. But my next client call is in 2 hours and I am slightly better prepared for it now. If I need perfection, I can always over work the image on a graphic station. 

    Day in and day out, I work on a laptop off of the main network. This plugs a big hole and makes me hopeful someone will provide a best of breed for the entire operation. I will continue to support this effort, unless I think they no longer care about their customer.

    This stuff is cheap. I have over $2K in the Creative Suite and I cannot even update it. I want to try everything. Hold my place in line please. I already finished basic training on this new software.

    Now I'm gonna go use it.

    Tim (back in)

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    Colin Grant

    I see where you are coming from and that is what I like about Luminar, the speed with which results can be achieved. It is such a shame they have borked it to a significant degree. But, it still works ok as a plugin so I can still have the benefit, or use Nik as an alternative. Lr gives me that flexibility and it is also a great dam, for me anyway. Being Mac based I do get the better deal re L3; not a good deal mind you, just a bit better than Windows :-)

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    Colin Grant

    Andy, I too suffered from the crawl of Lr but not any more. They recent upgrades have sorted that and it is now much snappier. I would not go so far as to say it was lightning fast but it is fast enough. My Mac is no super machine, it is a late 2017 iMac with only 8 gig ram. I will get more memory added but there is no real point as everything works in a snappy enough fashion at present - L3 included. 

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    Jon and Kathryn Graul

    Here's what is sending an even more negative message , been over a month and Skylum has not jumped into this thread to provide any explanation or update status , etc . I don't get it . I'm an amateur , casual user , haven't flipped the switch to utilize the DAM feature but just the crashes ( brand new Dell XPS ) and clone tool issues , etc . in conjunction with what I'm seeing here is steering me elsewhere ...

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    Colin Grant

    In fairness Skylum have been active here. The question is do we, the user, believe what they say given the issues the company has had since it changed from Macphun to Skylum. The answer to that question will always be driven by personal perception.

     

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    Tim Gillespie

    I just can't help myself! Let me put on my MBA for a minute (Uggg).

    Skylum is telling you plenty! No kidding. They don't want to, but they have no choice.

    Here are some of the hints.

    1. They promised a DAM early in 2018, to be delivered by the end of the year. They missed that badly. And then they changed their policy to make updates free thru 2019 (or something like that).

    That is not an act of kindness or goodwill, they are telling you they are behind on development and / or it is not going well. They are interested in turning on the revenue switch as soon as possible. But the software is fighting them at the moment. And to keep us at bay (those that have paid), they come out with all this generous update stuff.

    2. When the product shipped, it was far less than 1.0. Far less and they did not want that to happen. They understand the perception. They simply had no choice. The end of the year was a drop dead date!

    3, The late December update did very little as far as I can see. It did make it possible to register it. But that's about it. No stability yet!

    4. The January update has slipped into at least February, as evidenced by today's date and no update yet. This clearly tells you they are having trouble solving problems. This bodes poorly for the future too. It begs the question; is the architecture they are building this on stable? Are they building poor code on top of bad code? Why are they late and why is the software so bare bones.

    I don't mean to keep beating a nasty point, but On1 is light years ahead of this development. Common things like file names and navigation short cuts and interface improvements show you how far behind Skylum is.

    5. I think it is safe to predict this next update will be disappointing too. File names will not be present nor will stability. You are going to see a very bare bones development for quite some time. Why? Because they cannot go any faster. Maybe they will in the future, but for now, this development is stuck in slow gear.

    6. If Skylum has good news to share, they would do it today! They need to turn this around as soon as possible because they over promised and under delivered. And now they cannot change that fast enough.

    The true news is, this is going to be a slow, bumpy ride unless something drastically changes. So be it. The data to show us this is easily seen. We just have to see it for what it is.

    Okay I probably should leave this out, but I won't! This is now okay because I am using the new On1 on three computers, and it is snooping around the drive arrays now. I am already benefiting from this new program.

    Final daggar! Rate of development and progress. On1 is going to progress faster and go farther than Luminar 20??. They have solved for the basic problems and that has allowed them to provide the first viable alternative to Lightroom. Now they are going to distance themselves. While Skylum is trying to figure out how to put file names below images, On1 is refining their Lightroom import algorithms and making refinements based on user comments. They are in a position to do that now

    The clues are all out there now. I am rooting for Skylum. I like their products. But they did the same thing developers have been doing since writing for the first IBM 8088. They announced their product too early, and then did not deliver on it.

    And now another company has come in and is starting to eat Skylum's carefully planned lunch. This is only going to get worse unless Skylum can catch up now. Because something tells me there is an update to On1 that is not far away and will widen the already laughable gap that is there now.

    Hard to hear? Sure!

    Painful? Yes, this hurts.

    Truthful. It certainly looks this way from where I stand.

    Hold tight, today is a new day! They may still surprise us. But the road looks quite bumpy ahead. I would buckle up now.

    Tim

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    Colin Grant

    I would not take issue with any of that, Tim, other than I most certainly do not share your perception of ON1 :-)

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    Andy H

    Hey Tim. I agree with most of what you say too and I'm also with you on ON1. They still have some work to do mind you, but unless you want to spend way more on Capture One, it's the most viable alternative to Lightroom at the moment in my opinion.

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    Colin Grant

    Why does everyone want an all in one solution, it beats me?  I have not seen a good one yet - certainly neither ON1 or Luminar make the grade. Lr is a raw editor as is Capture One with DAM capabilities. Anything more and you need something like Ps or Affinity to hand or some decent plugins. All we are getting are complex resource hungry builds that try to be a Swiss army knife, but  do everything in a mediocre fashion. The joy of Macphun and Luminar Neptuune was the fact that it was a plugin and it did that very well indeed.

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    Tim Gillespie

    This is a nice conversation. I like it. You both bring up good points.

    Like I said in an earlier post, On1 gives me much deeper integration of my complete hard drive. I only have one $10,000 printer so I only need one super developer for that, contained on one workstation.

    But my main laptop and my Mac Air both need a great catalogue system for entirely different reasons. And if I am printing on an off the shelf (dye) printer, then I don't really think it matters.

    Every day I use part of the Creative Suite, any of the three big apps. I always have Dreamweaver open, the fourth big app.

    I use Affinity Photo and Designer, which I really like for quick web graphics and texting (mostly for fun). I use Luminar 2018, for more advanced RAW edits on the laptops. Still nothing I would print on a roll feed printer.

    But no central management system. There are times when I can make money if I can find all my grizzly bear shots with cubs, except I can't! I have every rated piece of ten dollar software the App store can talk me into. Still can't fine them. Most are keyworded, but there are times I am adding 750 images to the club every day for a month.

    Last one was shooting vineyards and wineries in NZ. 19 photo shoots lasting up to 18 hours a day over 26 days. Ain't got no time to keyword there! I can't even develop a fraction of the images while there.

    On1 already has worked deeply into a niche for me. And after reviewing the RAW editor, I am willing to elevate it in my opinion significantly. I will use this one.

    So different uses for different companies / photographers / graphic artists / hobbyists / knuckleheads. We are all hobbyists when you get right down to it.

    If I can quickly scan my hard drive and put some order to it, beyond my normal systems, I WIN!

    Tim (currently winning) http://www.theflatirons.com/

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    K.G. Wuensch

    @Tim Gillespie, with your requirements I am wondering why you don’t use Photo Mechanic...

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    Colin Grant

    @Mike, not sure about the clone brush but certainly it is there with the masking brushes. Have to look at the clone thingy, but there-again ON1 2019 just sits on my computer. Can't remember when I last used it in a productive environment.

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    Andy H

    Hey folks.  Just catching up on this thread after a day away.

    @Colin.  I can absolutely relate to folks who want to find an all in one solution.  Cost is one, ease of workflow is another.  I'm a keen amateur photographer on a limited budget and I don't have a photography business to offset costs of software.  I abandoned the Adobe Photography Plan as Lightroom Classic was dog slow and I hardly used Photoshop - it might be good value, but it's only good value if it performs and you get the most out of it. ON1 and Luminar broadly have the functionality I'm looking for.  Problem is Luminar 3 is an utter disaster on my machine, whereas ON1 is working great. I don't have too much lag on masking brushes, nothing that causes an issue for me anyway. I can load up Photo RAW and have completed editing 2 or 3 photos with minor masking before Luminar's splash screen disappears :-)

    @ Tim. Nice photos! I also have Affinity Photo.  I like it conceptually, but I can't get on with the interface and workflow.  I'm interested where this product goes though - some nice features.  Nice to have free updates as well.  Yes, Skylum are giving us free updates at the moment - but we all know why.  It's trying to placate the users as they know they've completely messed up. My appreciation for Skylum's gesture quickly turned to skepticism as sub-par update after sub-par update rolled out.

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    Colin Grant

    Tim, I get no performance hits on Lr,  not on my Mac. It is faster than ON1. ON1 is not cheap and if you go with the flow with the annual upgrades or join Plus in one of its two guises you will be paying more than Adobe photography plan. I do not know when you bailed out of Adobe but there have been steady performance upgrades. But if course it is entirely your choice, nothing to do with me :-). Editing wise I always seem to be able to do better with Luminar, even Luminar 3, than with ON1. I am not getting any crashes on L3 - well two since release;  it the bugs and non-delivery of promises that gets me down. Loading Luminar is extremely fast here and even the Library works well enough on my test folders (4.5k images), although the Library functionality is sadly lacking. 

    Like you I think Affinity might have missed a trick with Photo. It is excellent software but there is a steep earning curve and perhaps they stuck too close to the Ps look and feel. The raw editor though sucks in my view but I believe they are on or getting on to that. Currently raw editing is destructive.

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    Andy H

    For me, I used Lightroom up until late December 2018, when my annual membership was due.  It was still slow then - but not as slow as Luminar 3 though. Unless Adobe have released a major update early 2019, then I doubt anything has changed and I'm not about to commit to another year to find out, especially as ON1 is a more than able substitute for me.

    I agree Affinity has tried to be a Photoshop clone, which has to some degree influenced my view of it.

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    Colin Grant

    Strange - your Lr is slow as is your L3  whilst I do not see that on my 2017 iMac. I just loaded Luminar 3 whilst typing this and the load time was around 6 seconds. May be you have a huge library and that impacts it?

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    Andy H

    25,000 photos on a late 2015 iMac with 24 Gb RAM. Lr would load pretty quickly, but navigating between photos, lag on adjustment sliders was awful - even after the claimed performance enhancements. Luminar 3 with either fail to load or eventually after 2-3 minutes. Their DAM (or should I say browser) is a joke. ON1 loads in about 5 seconds and I'm up and editing in no time.

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    Colin Grant

    I used to get the slider lag on Lr but not now, unless I have other stuff running in the background. But honestly Luminar is really very fast on all counts as is DxO and yes indeed ON1. Just a shame L3 is still a bit of a joke, especially Library-wise. Life can be a thingy :-)


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    Andy H

    Indeed it can be! We all have different machines, set-ups, uses and expectations.  It is a huge challenge for software to be great across the board for all users.  However Skylum really haven't helped themselves - mainly due to their failure to deliver on their own promises and timelines.

    I still have a copy of DxO OpticsPro that I use for heavy noise reduction - I still think it's the best for that. It will be interesting to see where DxO take their Photo Lab product, especially if they more deeply integrate the Nik Collection technology.  I loved Nik as a Lr plug-in in the good old days when Lr ran at a good pace. If they can produce a good DAM then it could be worth a look.

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    Andy H

    @Mike. Good point. If that's the case, then their logic sucks. $80 for a copy of ON1 that seems to work great on older machines like mine versus me buying a new $3000 iMac. Then that might not guarantee good Luminar performance because the coding itself could be second rate based on the thoughts of some of our fellow contributors to this thread.  Mmmm, let me think!

    Well apparently the Luminar beta testing was extensive - especially if you follow their long list of affiliates on social media (or even other threads in this community) who had been ratcheting up the hype for months.  Those same affiliates that are trying their best to defend Skylum by stating how awesome Luminar 3 is, when I bet a good chunk of them actually think the same way as we do ;-)

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    Dan Parsons

    > But here's the big question: Perhaps they only wanted Luminar to work on the latest and greatest machines.

    No. 

    I am using a 2018 15" MacBook Pro with the upgraded 6-core i7 processor, 32GB of 2400 MHz DDR4 RAM, and 1TB of SSD. Even with 0 other programs running, Luminar 2018, and Luminar 3, both, are extremely slow. If you just load up a jpg and click around, try a few effects, its speed is acceptable. If you load a 42mp 200mb tiff and apply even a handful of effects, adjust sliders a lot, do a lot of mask editing... It eventually slows down so much that painting a mask brush stroke can take 20 seconds to appear. Similarly, saving the file often causes the app to beachball for 5+ minutes, all the while you're wondering if this time, it's going to crash, or if it will succeed in saving. These are just a few examples; Luminar's slowness manifests in multiple ways.

    Now maybe you say I am asking too much of the program, expecting it to be fast with a 42 megapixel tiff (fyi, Luminar's PSD support is just as slow, but it doesn't support saving as 16-bit.) But Capture One has no problem doing all of this with speed. Neither does Photoshop, ON1, even Apple Photos is faster. And don't forget I am using literally the fastest Mac that can be purchased at this time. 

    No, the only conclusion one can draw from this evidence is not that Skylum wants it to be performant on only the newest machines. The conclusion you draw is pure and utter incompetence.

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    Andy H

    New article (that we may wish to take with a pinch of salt based on past performance), hot off the press:

    https://skylum.com/blog/the-next-luminar-update-and-your-new-opportunities

    I really like the new splash screen for 3.0.2.  I wonder how long I'll be staring at it before I can actually use Luminar ;-) Maybe the next one will be a donkey?

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    Dan Parsons

    > New update, hot off the press:

    The way you wrote that makes it REALLY sound like Skylum just released an updated version of Luminar, but they in fact, have not.

    EDIT: Andy, I appreciate your update.

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    Andy H

    Sorry to get your hopes up Dan! I've edited my comment.  I hope you find it acceptable ;-) Maybe I should work for Skylum - you know - get everyone's hopes up only to leave you really disappointed :-)

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    Dan Parsons

    > I don't know what kind of video card you have.

    My laptop's discrete graphics is a Radeon Pro 560X with 4GB of VRAM and again, plenty fast for Photoshop/Capture 1/ON1. However, I've also connected a much, much faster external GPU and it made no difference whatsoever to Luminar's speed.

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    Colin Grant

    I think I have said before but in case not - I am only on a 2017 (late) 4k iMac with 8 gig of ram and a Radeon graphics card with 4 gig. ON1, Lr, Ps and indeed Luminar all run well (bugs run well too) speed wise. Luminar start-up to the All Photos screen is about 7 seconds. I have a test catalogue of 4.5k images.

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