OpenGL 3.3 and Later is Required

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  • Avatar
    Luc Verlinde

    @K.G. Addendum. And I do not want a refund, I want the fully functional application that has been promised by Skylum in the past !

  • Avatar
    Luc Verlinde

    No, they are not working on solving this issue. See all previous messages on this.

    For everyone else : search on Google for Opengl Extensions Viewer 4.3.6 if u are not sure about which version of Opengl u have.

    As indicated in one of my previous comments - which only a few people read I'm sure - I stopped using Lum quite a while ago and returned to LR 6.14.

    Lum sucks as a replacement for LR, sorry. 

    And we are still all of us waiting for the announced comm on the dev cycle. Sth which I also asked about months ago. I find all of this not professional at all. Been in ICT for 32 years. Never seen anything like this.

  • Avatar
    Angela Andrieux

    Lyle, K.G. and Luc,

    We did search for a solution, but concluded that utilizing OpenGL 3.3. was our best solution.

    We need OpenGL 3.3 on Windows because it helps us bring the Mac and Windows versions to parity. Parity doesn't only mean same features but similar performance. You wouldn't want the same feature working like a charm on Mac and being painfully slow on Windows. Something just being on Windows doesn't do any good, unless it's working properly.

    If the solutions listed in the original post above are not suitable (i.e. a hardware upgrade or using the older version), you can request a refund at support@skylum.com.

  • Avatar
    Guy Meacham

    Angela, I'm glad to see you are offering a refund simce people who purchased 2018 should have the expectation of being able to use all subsequent versions of it until the next new version release (2019?). 

    This is another example of poor communication though, the original post should have been what you wrote here in your reply and it should not have been left for folks to figure out on their own. Especially as the last official word until this post was that you were looking for a fix.

  • Avatar
    K.G. Wuensch

    @Angela, and how do you propose to solve your color management issue? OpenGL doesn't do color management! That's why every other company that does image editing refrains from using OpenGL (except under very restrictive circumstances now LR can utilize it - optionally and usually it becomes slower for many operations because of the need to transfer the image data back and forth). So what is a short sighted solution to a small problem (still it takes 30 seconds and a fried graphics card to open a single 20Mp image) is a dead end in my book. The one feature that must be working like a charm is consistency between both supported platforms - and since the filter pipeline on MacOS is fully color managed...

    If you don't realize that color management is imperative for an image editor or DAM...

  • Avatar
    Luc Verlinde

    @K.G. With great interest I have these past times been reading all your posts (I think...). I am in full agreement with you on all the issues you have mentioned so far.

    End of last year I have been test driving the then current version of WinLum. I sent quite a few mails and posted some issues overhere. Nothing much has happened so far.

    (1) Skylum communication still sucks, despite several promises to do better. Is it too much to ask for a roadmap ?

    (2) As I mentioned in a previous post, they should concentrate on the current issues with WinLum AND completely bring it on a par with the Mac version. To me WinLum is completely unusable. OpenGL is a serious isse, no dual screen mode is another one. I have a quite long list of issues but do not send them any longer to Skylum support as nothing happens with them.

    (3) WinLum is far too slow, on my system with quadcore i7 processor and 8 Gb of RAM and a Samsung 500 Gb SSD it takes about 22 seconds to open a 7D MII raw file. In LR 6.14 it happens in a flash.

    (4) While I think the DAM is important Skylum should first fix the above mentioned issues.

    (5) When I first learned about Lum for the Mac platform I was quite impressed by it. That is why I bought the Win version. What a disappointment this has been so far !

    And so, I cvould go on for a long time...

    I also like the posts by Sherwood Botsford. Nail on the head as well.

    Regards,

    Luc

     

  • Avatar
    Luc Verlinde

     Herewith the standard answer we get when sending a remark to Skylum for WinLum. "I will forward your suggestion to our developers for a further consideration." And then, we never hear of it again, disappears in the Skylum fog... 

    Skylum has a VERY SERIOUS communication issue - and not only towards us users but also internally I believe, in fact, I am more and more convinced of this with everything I see (not) happening. With 32 years of experience in ICT I have rarely seen a cpy with such bad communication. OK, agreed, Adobe is not the king of communication as well.

    I DO want to move from LR to WinLum ! So, Skylum, give us what you promised us ! And publish a roadmap !

     

  • Avatar
    Angela Andrieux

    @Luc - In regard to the other concerns you shared in this thread:

    Our marketing team is working on improving communication with users. I the meantime, the support staff here in the forums and via email are doing our best to answer questions and keep you in the loop with the info we have (and are allowed to share).

    We are working hard to bring the platforms to parity. Each update has been a major jump in that direction, as well as improving performance. The next Luminar update (which isn't too far out) will get us even closer to parity and bring further performance improvements.

    As for features suggestions and improvements, we have a long list of user requests. Our developers watch that list constantly and are responsible for prioritizing those improvements. We don't guarantee that each feature request will be implemented, but we do take our users' requests seriously and consider each and every one.

    If you have any other concerns, please let me know. I'll do my best to answer your questions.

  • Avatar
    Kenneth Roach

    Stumbled across this thread because Luminar doesn't much want to run on my old laptop. I must say, customer support at Luminar is most excellent. Please tell your CEO that the salaries of all Skylum CSRs should be doubled, effective last June.

    That said, I be disappointed here...

    Skylum's recommended solutions to the OpenGL 3.3 problem are 1) upgrade your hardware; and 2) run this antique version of Luminar that =should= be compatible with your antique hardware.

    Yes... I was able to download the old version of Luminar, and yes, it ran on my old Lenovo G470 notebook. That notebook is a "travel" computer only. I will not be upgrading it until it friggin' dies.

    As for your "upgrade your system" recommendation -- I can only conclude that "you must be Americans." You want me to say, spend $2,000US on a new state of the art laptop? And after six months, the motherboard will die, which I can replace for the low, low price of $3,000US? That's your recommendation? Because I've done exactly that in the past... And upon hearing the cost to repair, I junked that (HP) laptop. I only use dirt cheap laptops at this point. I only use cheapo laptops at this point, and even then, only when I travel... Only as temporary photo repositories.

    Otherwise, there are a great many people in the world who cannot easily afford what I consider to be disposable laptops. In fact, I (living in Thailand) recently upgraded a friend in Kenya from his older than dirt mobile phone to something relatively modern. No way he can afford a really cheapo laptop without begging. His new Huawei phone is everything to him, and so much better than the antique he was using before. We've talked... He just =might= get a computer one day. Not sure what its age or capabilities might turn out to be. One step at a time.

    Which is to say, recommending that customers upgrade their hardware is actually a pretty absurd thing to do. And so, what are Skylum's long term plans to provide their tools to customers who use older or less capable hardware? Are we to be "stuck" with downloading your old version of Luminar 2018. IF we can find a link to do so?

    I do understand that Skylum adopted OpenGL 3.3 in response to a problem of some sort... Something to do with achieving Mac parity. Except that the Windows and Mac versions are nowhere near parity. I mean, Skylum can't even find their way to make keyboard inputs equivalent at this time. How about that...

    All of which is just one person's input on this OpenGL 3.3 issue. Whatever the older version of Luminar 2018 that can be downloaded above might be, it runs on my old Lenovo G470 disposable notebook... The one that's had the screen repaired three times, and that's had the HD repaired with an SSD a year or so ago. Nice little machine now. Except that newer versions of Luminar won't run on it.

    Just food for thought. Thanks for listening! And I'm serious... Tell your CEO that your CSRs are literally CARRYING Luminar at this point, in spite of all the problems with Luminar Disaster 2, and that he needs to double your salaries ASAP.

     

  • Avatar
    Mike Miles

    The dirty secret they don't tell you is that even with a screaming fast video graphics card with lots of ram, there still may be a bottle neck between the card and motherboard. Plus, you may need a SSD.

    That makes a lot of laptops or destops...even recent ones, incompatible or laggy and sluggish using this and other OpenGL based programming.

    Imagine you have to buy a new computer and use Windows 10 which is buggy, just use this software

  • Avatar
    lyle johnson

    Does this confirm that you have NO INTENTION of solving the openGL problem? And please don't say "we're working on this" as it's been more than two months since this problem was identified and we've heard NOTHING.

  • Avatar
    K.G. Wuensch

    You do know that if you use OpenGL to display the images you need to implement any color management completely on your own before you hand over your image data to the framebuffer. That means you will lose any gains made by using OpenGL to display your images several times over and you can‘t use the frame buffer contents to save if any monitor profile is active (which it should be)... 

  • Avatar
    K.G. Wuensch

    @Luc, I have used the program you mentionted to verify that my systems all support OpenGL 3.3 - and still for 3 out of 4 possible configurations Luminar doesn't work. One one it crashes the machine reproducible by taking down the OpenGL driver as reliable as Leroy Jethro Gibbs as a sniper, on two it outright doesn't work and on the final one it fries the laptop because it drives the dedicated graphics processor that one has at more power than the cooling can handle...

    And as I explained above, OpenGL isn't a solution to their problems, it only makes things worse in terms of system integration. What would need to happen before the DAM is released is to have proper color management in place and ditch the OpenGL requirement. But if they do that then we will not see the promised DAM this year...

  • Avatar
    lyle johnson

    I have requested a refund. 

  • Avatar
    Angela Andrieux

    @Guy - I agree, we should have communicated this change, and the possible solutions, more effectively.

    @K.G. - Color management is a high priority for us. We are working to add new tools and improve color management with each update. If Luminar does not meet your needs you are welcome to request a refund by contacting support@skylum.com.

  • Avatar
    Denis Kotsee

    Just to make sure we're on the same page about the OpenGL 3.3 requirement - at the moment there are no plans to remove it. Those users whose computers do not support the 3.3 version of the library are eligible for a refund. Alternatively, you can upgrade your hardware (or switch to the previous version for the time being), and continue using Luminar and Aurora.

  • Avatar
    Luc Verlinde

    @Denis. I personally have no issue with the OpenGL requirement, according to the app OpenGL Extensions Viewer 4.3.6 I am on version 4.4. I find it very frustrating for other people.

    And anyway, u r completely ignoring the very real other issues I have mentioned in umpteen posts and emails.

  • Avatar
    K.G. Wuensch

    @Luc, we are very much on the same page. I am a software developer with his fair share of experience (my first software I sold were 2d and 3d graphics routines coded in Z80 assembler for a machine with a dedicated memory bank for it's graphics card) and I haven't seen such a bad case of the support being disjunct from the developers except maybe for SAP support when it hops from time zone to time zone and the hand over takes longer than the work hours of the support team member being handed the case)... The only difference between us I think is that I never wanted nor ever will move on from the Adobe subscription - nothing Luminar can offer will make me give up on that workflow with hierarchical key words and most importantly the seamless integration with the cloud and mobile devices!

    @Denis, I very much expected as much - except that I really don't understand your developers, OpenGL on Windows is a lost cause (DirectX is the way to go there - OpenGL support from the graphics card manufacturers is abysmal, unreliable and slow). Funnily on Mac it even now is being deprecated in favour of Metal. And deprecated on MacOS means that it's demise is inevitable - and to keep compatibility with new OS versions you must now avoid using that API. So to keep parity with the Mac version eventually you will have to switch to a middle layer capable of driving several backends (Metal being one, Vulcan and DirectX being the other sensible ones if you can't live without graphics card acceleration) anyway, so why not cut your losses and ditch the requirement now instead of later.

    And by the way, I am well versed in programming for Windows and as long as you don't need 3D acceleration most GPU's usually are a magnitude slower than using bare bones GDI/GDI+ API callls - you just need to avoid the .NET API and go for the traditional GDI API and know what you are doing and prepare and keep the image buffer in the correct format for your graphics card. That's why Luminar has slowed down by a magnitude for me (on the only machine configuration that is able to run it) when it switched to OpenGL - and LR did so too for many operations when they introduced the option to use OpenGL because those operations are slower going through the 3D data pipeline than going through the 2D centric functions the classic GDI(+) offers...

    If you finally get to an established user base (which will be hard given your constant failings in the communication area - and it doesn't help to recruit Youtube educators who all use the Mac version) you will get into bigger problems because imagine the outcry if the people that bought expensive new machines or graphics cards lose access to their DAM - then it's not only the loss of a convenience (Luminar at the moment is only a set of fun filters in a nice UI), it's the loss of access to the management of their image collection... What do you think will happen if someone with a bigger collection of images get's pushed an incompatible set of drivers - which happens on Windows 10 a lot as every bug fix release may push newer drivers (as in newer drivers certified by Microsoft, not necessarily newer or more correct drivers as released by the manufacturer)? Then you need a set of highly skilled support employees that can resolve such issues in hours or better minutes by walking these people through the hoops it takes to get a newer, not certified driver installed...

  • Avatar
    Peter Olschewski

    "The next Luminar update (which isn't too far out) will get us even closer to parity and bring further performance improvements."

     

    How far ?  1 month ? 6 month ?  A year ?

     

     

  • Avatar
    Angela Andrieux

    @Peter - The low end of that spectrum is a good bet :)

  • Avatar
    Jill Edwards

    OpenGL Extensions Viewer 4.3.6

    I can't find this version but did find this glview513.exe. Recent release but not sure it is the same thing.

  • Avatar
    Angela Andrieux

    Hi Jill - 

    Can you clarify your question?

  • Avatar
    K.G. Wuensch

    @Jill, yes that version will give the same information that the Skylum support wants - not that it helps much, out of 4 systems I tried (all of them supporting sufficiently high OpenGL versions) only one works albeit not without major flaws...

  • Avatar
    Luc Verlinde

    @Jill - glview513.exe is the same stuff. OpenGL Extensions Viewer is merely the description in the file properties.

  • Avatar
    Diego

    Me siento decepcionado, ustedes son los unicos culpables de todo esto, elevaron mucho las espectativas de los usuarios y es evidente que no estan a la altura de las circunstancias.

    Creanme que este no es el camino para llegar a grandes cosas, deberan replantearse muchas cosas.

    Ya solicite el reembolso

  • Avatar
    Leo Wilson

    Would it be possible to have a "final" <3.3 version that doesn't ask whether we want to upgrade every time we launch it?

  • Avatar
    Denis Kotsee

    This is still an ongoing issue for us, so at the moment I can't tell for sure but thank you for the suggestion, I've passed it on.

  • Avatar
    Zaphod Beeblebrox

    I have OpenGL 3.3 installed (confirmed by OpenGL Extensions Viewer and Geeks3D GPU Caps Viewer) and I have only one Graphics card installed (no internal graphics in use). Everything is updated to the latest version, but I still get the "OpenGL 3.3 and later is required for this application to run" message and the programm is not starting.

    What is the cause ? What can I do ?

  • Avatar
    Julia Kot

    Hi Zaphod,

    Please let us check your PC info. That's how to get one:

    • Press the Windows logo key + R.
    • Type msinfo32 in the dialog box that opens and hit Enter on your keyboard.
    • In the window that opens, make sure you have System Summary highlighted on the left.
    • Click File > Export.
    • Type the name of the file and save it somewhere where you can easily find it and send this text file to support@skylum.com or here

    Looking forward to hearing from you.

  • Avatar
    Zaphod Beeblebrox

    Dear Julia,

    I mailed the information. Thank you for your help.

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