Damn - DAM again

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36 comments

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    Peter Holka

    Yeah, we want to know when you will release DAM. I abandoned Lightroom and bought Luminar because you promised DAM in EARLY 2018. It is mid-year and you did not even announce the date of release. So ??? Should users abandon this great product just because you are not saying the truth  (lying ?) to customers? 

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    Tom Pickering

    They're not likely to be specific about a release date because of their experience with advertising release dates for Luminar in general.  When bumps in the road delayed an expected update, they ended up with egg on their face.  Their DAM is crucial to their promise of a Lightroom replacement and their recent experience, especially from Windows users' complaints, has caused an adnormal caution on their part.  This will be a game changer for them - either good or bad.  Their decision to develop for PCs as well as Macs has been very problematic for them and is probably contributing to their close-to-the-vest stance about release dates.  Squelching negative reactions is what killed their Facebook group and why they still hold all comments for approval.  So, all you're likely to hear from them is more "We're working on it" dialog until the DAM is imminent.

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    Julia Kot Kot

    Hi guys,

    I totally understand your frustration here. We know how DAM tool is important for you!

    It is in the final stage of development. We will disclose the info regarding the release date and the features of the DAM tool any day now.

    We really appreciate your patience 😊

    Thanks for being with us!

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    Sascha C.

    @Julia... that is exactly the same that you and your colleagues tell us whenever we ask. What means "any day now"?  This week? Within the next month? End of this year?

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    Julia Kot Kot

    Believe me, I'll be glad to provide you with this info, however, I do not have any information about timeframes. 

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    Sherwood Botsford

    There are other ways than timeframes:

     

    * Feature lists.

    * Screen shots.

    * Developer demos.

    * Storyboards -- mockups.

    * Preliminary documentation.

    I suspect the reason this isn't being done is that none of it exists.

     

    Question:  Who here on this list is participating in the Beta?  Anyone?  I can see that you may have to sign a non-disclosure agreement about what you are seeing on your screen, but surely they can't keep you from saying, "I'm part of the beta"

    I suspect luminar has a problem internally.  They are out of their depth, but admitting that they can't deliver on the DAM at all will cut sales, and frighten prospective companies that they aren't worth buying them out.  They are being quiet to Preserve Shareholder Value.

    So put up or up. Cat is out of the bag.

     

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    Peter Marxen

    If you don´t have information about timeframes . how can you wrtie something about "any day now"?

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    Angela Andrieux

    @Sherwood and Peter - Here is an article recently published by our company president Scott Bourne about Skylum and what is coming for Luminar: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/its-time-re-think-your-post-processing-workflow-scott-bourne/

    I know this won't answer all of your questions, but it will hopefully give you a glance at what we've been working on and what is coming, even if we can't share an exact timeline quite yet.

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    Tom Pickering

    Angela -

    Will the DAM be released for both Mac AND PC?

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    Sascha C.

    @Angela: A few words about this:

     

    1. "Within a few weeks, the company will announce its final sale of the current version".

      Does it mean, Luminar 2019 is on the way shortly after that with a new, higher price? And does it mean, that we will get a first Version of the DAM, but if we want to get new features, we need to pay a (higher) upgrade price for Luminar 2019?

    2. "The new DAM is still under development, and the company wants to make sure it is rock solid before it comes out of BETA".

      Has the BETA already started? I asked to take part in the BETA Program, but never got any information about it

    3. "...we can't share an exact timeline quite yet."

      You can't or you won't ? 

    4. Why is it so difficult to give us a simple list of features what we can expect and what makes Luminar DAM so special (speed is something I do not believe when Skylum talks about it... saw this in Luminar, slow as hell when it was released). 

    5. Why is it so difficult to tell us at least a reliable time period. No one is asking for the exact date.

    6. Some examples for features that may be good to know:

      - Has the DAM catalogues like internal containers / databases or can I use my own file structure and just reference to that files

      - Is it able to read and interpret xmp sidecar files

      - Do you get rid off the big LMNR sidecar files?

      - Does it support Versions

      - and so on

     

    Thank you

    Sascha

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    Denis Kotsee

    @Tom Pickering yes, we'll know the timeline a bit later

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    Peter Holka

    there is another thread when they admitted that beta testing started two weeks ago. BUT WHO KNOWS? 

    I don't believe them any word, no more after all.

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    Angela Andrieux

    @Sascha

    1. Yes, that is my understanding as well.

    2. Yes, the beta has already started. We selected a small group of individuals to participate in the private beta. We may open up a public beta, but I don't have any info on this yet.

    3. I personally don't have the exact timeline in hand, but the info I do have is under NDA so I can't share unless I want to lose my job.

    4. We don't want to put out a specific list of features while the DAM is still in development/early beta in case the final product doesn't ship with all the features mentioned. We don't want our users to count on a certain feature that might not be production ready at launch.

    5. Revealing timeframes is tricky. We can give an expected timeframe, but if we run in to unexpected challenges and the process takes longer then customers are upset that we didn't meet the deadline. We've made this mistake in the past and are doing our best keep it from happening again.

    6. Those types of details will be released as soon as possible. Again, we don't want to promise certain functionality that may be in the betas, but might not be production ready at launch.

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    Sascha C.

    Hi Angela:

    Thank you

    regarding

    1. Really sad and bad news if this will happen. I am sure you will loose many of your customers if that will really happen.

    2. I wrote just now an eMail to Julia, because I was asked to take part in the Beta but never heard again from her. 

    3. I completely understand. You are between the chairs and the management seems not to take care about these questions

    4. Ok, I unterstand in combination with 1. We get the promised DAM, but is will be released shortly before 2019 Version of Luminar even if it costs features. Important is, to give them something that looks like a DAM... strange strategy, but well...

    5. May I ask you which Software Development Approach you use at Skylum?

    6. Ok...

    Sascha

     

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    Sherwood Botsford

    This is utter crap.

    I don't know of any company that starts a beta test with  an incomplete product.  Beta testers are the 2nd tier of quality control checkers:  They try to find bugs.  They suggest reorganization of the menus.  They spot things like menu bars that are too skinny, keyboard shortcuts that don't work as advertised, glitches in how the program works.  They find new and interesting ways to crash it.

    But at the time of beta testing, the feature set is nailed down.  The overall look-and-feel is nailed down.  It is a functional program even it it doesn't quite work right.

    Sometimes a feature is found to be unworkable, and you have to back out of it, but generally the alpha testers catch that inhouse.

    Sometimes you have scaling problems.  No one in house tried to change the spelling of a keyword that was used in 40,000 images, bring the program to a halt for 15 minutes.  No one tried to load a catalog of a million images.

     

    I don't think these beta testers exist.  No one who reads this list has come forward and said, "I'm a beta tester"

     

    Vapourware, pure and simple.

     

    I read the article linked to a few messages above.  Fluff piece.  

     

     

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    K.G. Wuensch

    Worst of all, if some features from the DAM are missing in Luminar 2018 all will have to pay for Luminar 2019 to get them fixed... That's a bait and switch if I ever saw one...

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    Tom Pickering

    Quite frankly, I'm not so concerned about the DAM as I have a number of alternatives to choose from besides Lightroom - Exposure X3, Photo Raw 2018, Bridge, etc.  Will it be an added benefit to have a DAM incorporated into Luminar?  Sure, if its paradigm is not so strange as to disrupt my workflow to adapt to it.  I'm more concerned about the parity issue between Windows and Mac versions, since I'm on a PC.  If I get the DAM without parity, it will still be a product with a great idea but incomplete execution and only an occasional use.  Really makes me sad. d:¬{(

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    Antonio Marasco

    Wait WHAT? ...

    Did I get it right that the DAM will come to a new Version of Luminar? You PROMISED a DAM for Luminar 2018, not 2019! 

    By the way... The DAM was the MAIN REASON why many of us even considered buying the software!
    Now I ended up waiting for MONTH and then you are developing a new Version instead of giving us what we were promised for Luminar 2018!? Are you KIDDING ME?! ...

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    Denis Kotsee

    The DAM is going to be a free update for the users of 2018, and it also will be included by default in the 2019 version.

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    Sascha C.

    Or in other words: Luminar 2018 users get the first version of DAM with the Features that are ready shortly before 2019 will be released. Not more than that. If you want more, pay again.

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    Steve Adams

    Denis,

    I purchased in December 2017. At that time Skylum (MacPhun) promised the DAM soon. Half a year later, Skylum is promising the DAM soon.

    It sounds like I'm not the only one growing tired of promises.

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    Sascha C.

    I am sure you are not. As I wrote in an other thread, DAM was already „promised“ or let‘s say used for marketing purposes with Luminar 1.x (Luminar 2017). So there are many users waiting for it much longer than since 2017.

    If you ask me, in the case of Skylum will not offer us at least a very fair upgrade price to Luminar 2019 AND the DAM isn‘t looking promising, it is time for me to say goodbye to Luminar and Skylum because I want to have Pro software even ad a hobby photographer. Not a toy.

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    Daniel Voulkos

    Myself, I will wait. I would much rather have software free of glitches and a good interface. I will wait. I've seen enough issues with upgrades or 'new' app's that I have gotten in the last two years that I do need immediately. Capto for one, I use it daily and it still has issues and the developers don't respond to email. ugh. Yes I am tired of Lightroom and have a close friend that still uses Aperture who need to move on. I've got her waiting for Luminar as well. She will. As long as you can export your library out of Luminar if there are problems......I.......will...........wait....

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    Steve Adams

    I just don't like that I bought based on a dishonest promise. While there's no choice but to wait, Skylum has given themselves a substantial amount of extra time to deliver a quality product. It'll have to be pretty damn good to recover customer goodwill.

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    Duc Vu Anh

    It is hard to admit that we all do care about the DAM thing that skylum have promised. Otherwise, just simply ask for refund and forget Luminar forever, not wasting time browsing and posting here :)

    I do like Luminar for windows due to its simple and effective workflow. Very easy to use and well organize compare to On1 or even photoshop and Lr.

    However, it is not function correctly on Windows with lot of issues such as the blury image preview when text scaling larger than 100% :(

    I do not understand why Skylum would not provide neccessary patches for such of annoying issues. No need for huge improvement at once. But minor but frequent update showing that skylum do care about their customers would be much grateful. That is the Japanese called "kai-zen" ;)

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    Julian Fricker

    I'm not sure if there might have been some confusion with the answer to one of the questions.

    "Within a few weeks, the company will announce its final sale of the current version"

    What they've said is this will be the final chance to buy Luminar 2018 at a discounted price. That's not saying they will give us the DAM as part of Luminar 2019.

    For myself I need some confirmation of the DAM soon as I need to choose a direction. I've worked in Aperture for over 10 years and need to find a replacement. Apple Photos is a non starter for me due to the lack of star ratings. I have no interest in paying for Adobe products, I've moved away from Photoshop and Illustrator for work and have no interest in Lightroom.

    It looks like a lot of people have similar ideas, in reviews of Luminar you often see it talked about as a Lightroom replacement but without a DAM that can't happen.

    If I am wrong and the DAM ends up being part of a paid upgrade to Luminar 2019 then I'm afraid this product will lose a huge amount of customers who were promised DAM as part of Luminar 2018.

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    Denis Kotsee

    The DAM will be a free update for Luminar 2018, and it will be included by default in the 2019 version.

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    K.G. Wuensch

    Talking about Luminar 2019 already today shows that those that are banking on Luminar being the solution to their subscription rejection have put their money on the wrong horse.  They only exchanged the subscription of a working tool for a "must buy paid upgrade to get rid of bugs because we only service the new version" type of de-facto subscription. This isn't going to go down well!

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    Steve Adams

    Julian Fricker,

    I bought into Skylum's promise of the Luminar DAM. I like the idea of modular photo editing and thought Luminar could be my go-to app. Unfortunately, Skylum has been long on promises and short on results.

    I have used Exposure from Alien Skin Software for years with good results. They sell an image editing/management solution that has been regularly updated, doesn't tie you into a subscription, and, unlike the DAM portion of Luminar, is available now. They even offer a 30-day free trial. If you need the DAM function now, it can't hurt to check them out.

     

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    Peter Holka

    Yeah, and what about a free update to Luminar 2019 for current user which paid money for the product which they cannot use?

    For example, I bought  Luminar 2018 immediately after release with the promise that both, Mac and Windows versions will be equal in short time period and DAM will be available in beginning 2018. No one of these promises is true in second half of 2018.

    Mac version of Luminar is much better and it has more features than win version. I will not speak about DAM.

    I think I will go back to Lightroom despite I hate their subscription. But I will get what for I pay. I think there is a lot of people doing the same. Go back to the real product instead of neverending promises "soon", "in a few weeks" then what - DAM in 2020? How long should we wait? DAM was already promised to Luminar 2017 owners. It is about to release Luminar 2019 and DAM is still not here. 

    But this is not about DAM only. Why there are more new features and improvements in Mac version than WIN ???

    Is WIN version cheaper? Can somebody from Skylum explain it? This is the main reason why I'm going back to Lightroom.

     

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