Using as a Mac Extension - re-editing

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    Margaret Bright

    Hi Dave,

    This is the expected behavior of the app: you can either revert to the original state of the image or continue working with the current state of the edited one.

    But we do have this on our list of requested features, and we will consider it for future implementation.

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    Dave Marcus

    That is VERY disappointing!  Very!  It means that if you want to come back to an image you like to make a little tweak, you have to start from scratch.  (Or, you have to work backwards from the final image.).  Not very satisfying!!!  Very surprising!!!  Awful, even.

    Please note that the user manual does NOT warn the user of this limitations or of the other limitations of using Luminar as an extension.

    So far I have found serious problems in editing single images from Photos and now serious limitation in using it as an extension to Photos.  

    Is there any document that shows which features are not available + what the limitation are in the various ways to use Luminar?

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    Kirk Osborn

    Hi! We are constantly improving our apps and getting positive feedback from our customers. We are sorry to hear that you have such an unsatisfying experience using Luminar.

    I'm afraid we don't have such a document since the availability of features is a very relative term. Right now, we don’t have the functionality that you mentioned. That being said, we’ve heard that request quite a bit so maybe we will do so in the future. I’ll speak with our engineering team about this, and they’ll reach out if they have any other questions.

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    Dave Marcus

    May I suggest that the availability of features being a "very relative" item is quite a good reason for you to document them? :)

    One of the bedrock decisions for a new Luminar user is how to use the product, and knowing the advantages and disadvantages of the 3+ different ways would be very helpful.

    Best,

    Dave

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    Kate Williams

    Hi Dave,

    Thanks for the suggestion. We'll discuss it. 

     

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    Dave Marcus

    Thanks. 

    One of Skylum’s support people also mentioned a fourth workflow, which centers around exporting images from Photos and then editing them with L4. I think you lost a lot with that in that your “good” images, when edited, are then outside of Photos, and you have images in two data stores.  You then don’t get the magic f having these images automatically propagating via iCloud to your phone, iPad or other devices, for what that is worth. 

    i mention this because it goes to an important decision that L4 users must make, which is whether or not to import images into Photos or to store them separately.  I would love to hear thoughts about that. 

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    Bill Kyle

    Hi Dave, I think you are going to find that this more of a limitation in Apple Photos than Luminar. Photos database just doesn't allow what you are asking for I think. I don't know of any plugin app that works that way in Photos. Could be, but I am not aware of any. I use Luminar Libraries to retain edits and save final edits (TIFF) directly to Photos via 'Open In'.

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    Dave Marcus

    thanks Bill.  I've mentioned a number of things in this thread, though, so need to ask which one you believe is an intrinsic limitation of Photos.  I am a newish user of Macs and of Luminar so I don't have a lot of context/experience.

     

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    Bill Kyle

    Dave,

    This is what I thought was your main concern in your earlier post using Luminar as a plugin in Photos: "It means that if you want to come back to an image you like to make a little tweak, you have to start from scratch.  (Or, you have to work backwards from the final image.)." 

     

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    Dave Marcus

    Hi Bill, yes, that was my main concern (but I've also identified a couple of other limitations in using L4 as an extension and just wanted to check that the now that you are speaking of.). 

    I don't think that Photos need to explicitly support L4 acting as I'd like as long as it gives L4 access to the original image, which Photos definitely keeps, as long as L stores the adjustments somewhere, presumably outside of Photos. The "re-edit" workflow could even be:

    1. User uses Photos "Revert to Original" function

    2. User opens L4 as an extension.

    3. L4 detects that it has stored adjustments for were made to the image being edited.

    4. L4 asks "Re-apply previous adjustments"? and does so if the user asks for it.

    In some ways this would be the same as have as user-saved Look for each photo. 

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    Member

    I have started a new slightly different thread, but I think you have touched on a limitation I didn't expect.  I would be OK about the L4-edited image going back into photos as a finished article (ie opening it up again would not allow the undoing of the previous L4 edits), but my problem is I can't get the image back into Photos except as a new entry.  In other words the image I started with might be from (say) 2016.  I 'edit with' Luminar4 but when I'm finished I have to export it from L to some arbitrary folder, then re-import it into Photos.  So now there's two images and chronologically they may very far apart in the library system.  I expected it to simply overwrite the L4-edited image over the top of the original.

    Mike

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    Bill Kyle

    Mike,

    Here is how I look at the way it works.

    All edits are non-destructive to the original. As it should be.

    Original RAW (or any original format) is never overwritten by the edited version.

    This is true for both Luminar 4 and Apple Photos.

    Use Luminar Libraries to save your edited data to the catalog file database automatically,

    Export final edited versions to Photos if you want to preserve that edited image. Go back and continue editing where you left off if you want. Your have the option to reset to original as well.

     

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    Dave Marcus

    Mike,

    From what you are describing, it sounds like you are invoking Luminar by the "open with..." function.  This is not using it as an extension.  When you use it as an extension, you

    1. Double-click the photo to make it occupy the entire Photos window.

    2. Select Edit in the upper right, as if you were going to edit with Photos' own tools

    3. Click the little icon that is a circle with three dots in it.

    4. From the drop-down list, select Luminar 4.  (If it isn't there, read the manual for what you didn't do - see link below.)

    Luminar is then opened within the Photos window.  You won't see the Luminar menu; you will see the Photos menu.

    5. When you are done editing, click Save Changes in the upper right.

    See details here for using it as an Extension; https://manual.skylum.com/4/en/topic/using-luminar-as-a-photos-for-macos-extension

    When you use L4 as an extension, the original photo is indeed modified by Luminar. However, Photos save an unedited version that you can revert to when needed (in Photos Edit mode, click Revert to Original.)

    When you use L4 in this way, you don't have any of the disadvantages you mention.  (Two things you didn't mention, btw, are that in the process you are following, the 'new' photo is not included in the same album as the original, and keywords are missing.)

    However, when you use L4 in this way there are some big disadvantages.

    1. If you have other software (such as Topaz products) set up as plug-ins to use within L4, you lose the ability to use them. (Luminar does not provide any way to invoked except through the menu system, and Photos does not let Luminar shows its menu.

    2. Adjustments you make with L4 cannot be copied and then pasted into another photograph.

    3. Most significant, you cannot reopen the photo in L4 and adjust any of the previously applied edits. All you can do is used Photos to revert to the original and then re-edit from scratch. Or, you can take the final-so-far photo and add adjustments.

    4. You cannot export a photo. If you want, for instance, a B&W version and color version, you need to get your adjustments done for 1 version, then Save Changes and, in Photos, used Duplicate Photo to add a second copy, and edit that copy (but in doing that, you cannot undo or tweak any adjustments you made before you saved changes.

    Where this is a more severe limitation is that you cannot create an export version that is resized or indeed alter any of the characteristics of the file.

    5. You cannot access the Luminar library (this has not been a problem for me; I don't know if it is a limitation, practically speaking).

    5. When you are using a brush, you have to change brush size, hardness, opacity, etc from. dialog box. (No big deal at all.)

    The workaround I am using for #2 and #3is to save my final adjustments as a new look in Luminar.  I get around limitation #2 by applying the look to additional photos.  This means that I could easily end up with 1000s of looks, so I am only creating a new look when I am doing something significantly different that my usual adjustments.  I get around limitation #3 by using Photos to revert to the original photo, applying the look, and then tweaking.  For that to work perfectly, I have to have saved the adjustments as a new look.

    This is what I know so far.  I am trying to figure out the best way to store my images (in Photos i.e., in the photos library; in other folders; or both), and I am trying to figure out the best way to invoke and use L4, so I've been making notes on these things.  

    (editorial comment: Unfortunately, the Luminar documentation describing plusses and minuses of the choices doesn't yet exist.  Surprising to me as this is a VERY fundamental decision Mac users have to make.  (But then again, Luminar only lately seems to be focussing on fundamentals in the software, so I guess this reflects the company as a whole.)

     

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    Member

    Wow Dave that's a brilliant answer - thanks.  I will work through what you say above today.  It probably answers questions about why I wasn't getting other 3rd party apps to work as I thought they would.

    My take on this is that when I first started using Photos (because Picasa was discontinued), I hated it, but it's grown on me and I now like its cataloguing.  But mainly that top slider in Photos' own native editor transforms my images instantly and takes me maybe 3 or 4 seconds.  It's probably just my inexperience but I have attempted to use Luminar, DXO Elite, and Imaging Edge and none of them have a single 'enhancer' that IMHO comes close to Photos' native one.  The other apps all have individual features of course that Photos lacks (Who else has an add-sky function like L4 !!), and DXO seems to be better even than Sony's own Imaging Edge at auto correcting for my RX100 camera/lens distortions.

    Thanks again 

    Mike

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    Dave Marcus

    Hope it helps.  Please do reply with any additions or questions (or corrections).  I am still feeling my way with this.

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