Luminar 4 sky replacement and layers.

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    Roy Blackwell

    Sky replacement only works on the base layer and the stamped layer. It can not used on an adjustment layer. Got an example image you can post here?

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    Darryl Brooks

    That makes sense, and I will create and post a sample in a minute. What I'm asking is to how to accomplish the above. For instance, before sky replacement, I would open an image and apply say, Remove Color Cast. Then I would add an adjustment layer and apply Super Sharp. So, if I want to do those same things and replace the sky, what would be the process? 

    Thanks

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    Darryl Brooks

    This is using it as a plugin to LR if that matters. 

    As I began to create the sample, I noticed that after I apply the sky replacement, that all the looks still have the original sky. So are looks not able to be used with sky replacement? 

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    Roy Blackwell

    Add an adjustment layer or create a stamped layer and the sky replacement will show on the Looks preview.

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    Darryl Brooks

    OK, so I sent this image to L4 and added Blue Sky 1. So far, so good. Then I added an adjustment layer, and as you said, the looks changed. I applied remove color cast. Image still looks good. Then I add a second adjustment layer and applied supersharpt. At that point, the original sky is bleeding through. Below is a 100% screen capture. You can see ghosting of the orignal sky in the blue areas. 

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    Roy Blackwell

    From LR to L4, followed your steps, then back to LR and exported.

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    Darryl Brooks

    Hmm. I'll try again. 

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    Darryl Brooks

    I've done a few more and it seems it has nothing to do with layers. Don't know if it's my Windows machine, but depending on the original sky, sometimes the original sky bleeds through. Depending on the new sky, it may or may not be noticeable. Below, the original image is on the right, and the replaced sky on the left. The faint clouds at the upper left of the ship and the dark blue line at the upper right are from the original. I probably wouldn't notice it if I wasn't looking for it, but in some images, it is unusable. The was a Canon raw file, converted to Tiff and brought into L4. All I did was replace the sky.

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    Darryl Brooks

    FYI. In another similar to this, the replacement sky chopped off the flag, something I haven't seen before. In another image with similar original clouds, the replacement was flawless. I'm stumped, but it's still a great product. 

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    Darryl Brooks

    Here is a more extreme example of the problem. It didn't matter what sky I used, including my own. 

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    Elena Blum

    Hi Darryl,

    Please contact our support team https://skylum.com/support and we will do our best to take a closer look at what’s going on right away. Please send us you raw-files using Wetransfer:

    1. Visit https://wetransfer.com/
    2. If it's your first time visiting this website, it may ask you to purchase a subscription. Simply select to proceed with the free version.
    3. Click Add your files.
    4. Select the file(s) on your computer.
    5. After you see all the files you need to send appear in the list, click the icon to the left of the Transfer button (the icon looks like a circle with three dots in it).
    6. In Send As select Link.
    7. Click Transfer.
    8. After the files have finished uploading, click Copy Link and paste it into the reply to this email.
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    Darryl Brooks

    Thanks. I no longer have that raw file, but here is another. I did an Edit In from Lightroom into Luminar 4. I clicked on AI enhance and then Sky replacement with the last Blue sky option. You can see the results. If I just replace the sky without the AI, it still bleeds through, but isn't as noticeable. If I used one of the first two blue skys with more clouds, it wouldn't be noticeable. 

     

    https://we.tl/t-hf84wEQRhi

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    Thomas Lewis

    Darryl,

    "Original sky bleeding through" - that's a much better description of the problem than I came up with - but it sounds identical to my issue.  I also uploaded an example to Skylum support.  Any response yet?

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    Darryl Brooks

    No, just sent mine in a bit ago. 

     

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    Darryl Brooks

    Still no response. I have come to accept that for now, I can't replace a sky that has any clouds in it. 

     

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    Thomas Lewis

    Yes, it would seem the hard part was already accomplished - masking complicated backgrounds.  I can only guess why they would release an early beta as a finished product.  I have no Luminar 3 history, so I don't know if this is typical.   Meanwhile, I have been running some of my previously processed images through "AI Enhance" and "Foliage Enhancer" and liking the results, so there's that.

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    Thomas Lewis

    I just got a request from Skylum support (Anastasia) to send them my "old sky bleeding through" files again, because they let the previous ones expire on the free upload site.  I declined, and told them how to duplicate it.  

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    Thomas Lewis

    It would seem (and this is speculation on my part) that some idiot in Skylum management had a PERT chart that said the software would be released on November 22 or whenever) or wouldn't take "but it's not ready" as an answer from the programmers.  I was a programmer for 40 years, but usually had a boss that would listen to reason (maybe because he/she was an M.D., not an MBA who thought his/her "management skills" were somehow applicable.

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    Darryl Brooks

    Yeah, it's easy enough to recreate, but Skylum isn't alone. I often have to prove to a vendor that a bug exists that can be easily recreated or tested. After going back and forth for weeks with Adobe, I finally got them to admit that they had been able to recreate the bug. Then they wanted me to submit a separate bug report so they could put it in their list of things to fix.
    No thank you. The bug still exists. And they are still bleeding customers.

    I too was a programmer and fought with marketing on when to release. In all fairness, I think this is a very good product and I'm glad I have it. It's still light years ahead of anything else, and I can work around the issues. 

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    Thomas Lewis

    I agree on some of the product features.  I've been spritzing up some previously processed photos in a minute or two with a couple of Luminar 4 sliders.  And I've only seen one failure of the Sky Replacement masking process so far.  I would love an intermediate step where Sky Replacement displays the mask as a hatched pattern or some such.  It certainly seems that once the complicated masking process is complete (which it seems to do very quickly), replacing everything in the mask would be simple.  And if they can't be bothered to make a User Manual PDF, why not just have a tool tip on each slider saying what the heck they do?

    - Armchair Programmer

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    Darryl Brooks

    Agree on the docs. I need to spend some time just trying out all the sliders. Meanwhile, check out Jim Nix's videos on Youtube. He does a pretty comprehensive job on L4

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    Thomas Lewis

    Just watched the Jim Nix videos per your recommendation.  I learned a lot.  But I was particularly eager for an explanation of the Sky Global, Sky Local, and Close Gaps slider in Sky Replacement, and he skipped right over them.  Do you think he doesn't know what they do, either?  ;-)

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    Darryl Brooks

    Not sure. He's got a lot of videos on sky replacement, but I haven't watched them all.I'm grinding through his Luminar 4 Tutorial series now; up to 6 or 7. 

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    Thomas Lewis

    I just emailed this message to Skylum Support:

    Anastasia,
     
    If you take an image that has clouds, say in the rightmost part of the sky, and replace that sky with an image that has blue sky in that spot, you can see the original clouds, though at some partial opacity.  If you then start playing with the "Close Gaps" slider, you can see that Close Gaps does not "set and reset" as you slide it back and forth, but instead works in some sort of additive manner.  I think this may be a hint as to what is wrong with the mask or replacement process.
     
    At least that's what happens on my computer in Windows 10.
     
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    Thomas Lewis

    Darryl,

    Were you a Luminar 3 user?  if so, how long did they release updates?

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    Elena Blum

    Hi Thomas, we're planning the next update by the end of the year. Please stay tuned!

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    Darryl Brooks

    Not going to submit images to support again since I never got a reply from the ones 3 weeks ago, but now the sky is bleeding through the foreground. And the edit mask brush just erases the original image, not the sky overlay. 

     

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    Thomas Lewis

    Darryl,

    My workaround is to white out the sky with EasyHDR's (there - I said it!) Intelligent Mask function and then export that image to Luminar 4.  I realize that would seem to obviate the need for Luminar 4, but since Luminar 4 DOES seem to be able to make a complicated sky mask, I have a workaround until Skylum fixes Sky Replacement.

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    Darryl Brooks

    I actually did that with this image. That helps stop the original sky from bleeding through, but this is the replacement sky bleeding thought the building. Because of the image, raising the horizon wouldn't work, and the edit mask was a disaster. 

     

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    Thomas Lewis

    I haven't seen Luminar 4 Sky Replacement go outside the sky area.  I guess it's due to the lack of color contrast between the clouds and the roof of that building - that is to say, the mask it generated wasn't correct?  My photos are all mountain landscapes, so there's a lot of contrast.

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