DAM

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    Gracie Allen

    Um, K. G. I think you may have missed my point...  Not who has the "easiest" technique for sky replacement - and yes, I've seen the video and in SOME cases it's OK - in others not so much, but what are people doing to REPLACE those Photoshop capabilities with the various "Lightroom killers"?  'Cause if the answer is NOTHING, then you're STILL paying Adobe and unless all these $50 programs are significantly better in terms of speed, capability, compatibility and other areas than Lightroom, why bother to spend money on both?

    So far, I have seen very little in Affinity that would replace Photoshop and essentially nothing from Skylum.

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    K.G. Wuensch

    @Gracie, I wholeheartedly agree - I never bought Luminar as a LR replacement (or PS for that matter), currently it's only barely usable as a plugin from PS because it is lacking in all areas, that would make it usable standalone. On Windows it's unusable garbage as it is lacking color management.

    Once the DAM was announced I thought, well this could replace Faststone or XNview when I am on one of my field trips (nature photography) and I could see if some of the filters do make a difference. I still would be using LR+PS including the cloud as my primary means of organizing my images - if you are not adverse to using a cloud then the Adobe cloud as integrated with Lightroom Classic CC is amazing, I have 10 years worth of my photography synchronized and can carry that around on my iPad. But now it looks increasingly as if Luminar is going to be a complete and utter failure as they are wasting development resources on lost causes (the file browser) while not fixing blatant bugs or embarrassingly ludicrous decisions (like the automatic noise reduction in the RAW conversion which you can't disable nor influence in any way whatsoever)...

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    Gracie Allen

    K. G., it sounds like your experience is not dissimilar to mine, though rather than purchasing Luminar  I try new versions when trials come out.  And since I'm on Windows I too have hit shortcomings that make it less useful for the image optimization I typically do.

    I have no aversion to the cloud, but don't use the cloud-based version of LR as its not practical when I travel.  I sometimes don't have a viable connection to the cloud, and require immediate access to full image files for processing for competition or to fill orders from clients. It doesn't take much manipulation of a D850 image in Photoshop to have files that exceed 2GB, and pushing them to, and retrieving them from, the cloud is not practical. 

    Flawed though they are, I'm intimately familiar with, and have mastered Lightroom and Photoshop, so a replacement product would have to be significantly better for me to switch.

    That includes a GREAT DAM...

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    Nicolas Venot

    I was really holding out and trying to give Skylum the benefit of the doubt, but almost day after day they keep giving me reasons not to. Weather it's extremely condescending emails sent out their CTO, or that the ONLY source of updates for users who have been waiting for updates has been through a few threads in a sub forum and not general update emails has really made the case against spending any more money with them. I believe that we'll see DAM eventually, and they will live up to their promise (this time), though it will bug-ridden version of DAM pushed out the door at the very last minute before the '19 version goes live (think of early days Windows Luminar'18). We'll be back where we stared; left with is more promises of "soon", but only if we buy back in again...  At least it would stave of the class action lawsuits for Skylum.

    Maybe it's only because there are 9,999 of us in the "can we please get what we paid for" camp; I can't even begin to imagine how frustrating this is for the other 9,999 in the "can we just have this work on windows like you promised" group. You don't have to take my word Skylum, just listen to your own CTO, and maybe you'll stop losing so many future customers.

    "If 10,000 users report dissatisfaction with the same component of your company’s service, that’s something you should pay attention to."

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    K.G. Wuensch

    @Nicolas: "If 10,000 users report dissatisfaction with the same component of your company’s service, that’s something you should pay attention to."

    Maybe they should consider that for every one that requests a refund there will be 100 users which are as dissatisfied but don't want to go through the hassle and simply write off the money...

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    Brian Ramage

    Maybe they should put up a poll of satisfied or dissatisfied ...

     

    I am very dissatisfied. I bought a program with DAM coming soon. and cannot use said program without the DAM. I guess I will give it a few more weeks and then if no signs of actual DAM information I will request a refund. I see On1 and others are showing off their new goods soon. so some companies are actually giving out information, not just  "soon" statements or "by the end of the year" 

     

    That END OF THE YEAR really stinks when you've paid for the 2018 release without a MAJOR feature. giving it to users at the very end of the year is just a scam without offering the next year to fully realize the application.

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    Geir Ertzgaard

    It really isn't good enough to use DAM as a selling point when you don't deliver. Either keep shut about it or deliver as promised in your talk. I paid for the 2017 version with the promise of DAM, and upgraded to the 2018 version for the same reason. It really isn't good enough.

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    Bruce Bovill

    It's an elementary error they have made. They should have ported to Windows in the background then put it out as an invited public beta, based people who had indicated an interest in that platform.

    No mention of a DAM though. Vapourware never works, and as they have found, breeds ill will with potential customers.

    I have no real interest in the DAM (unless it is awesome and much better than the basic function that Apple Photos affords), but the kerfuffle about it has undermined my trust in the company for other functionality, so I'm sticking with the products I currently have, and I'm not updating.

    At the same time they should have been developing a DAM, but without excitedly trying to use it as a selling point. At a time when it was usable, if not yet fully functioned, that should have gone to limited public beta.

    Step by step, when things exist. The issue was, I guess, income stream to fund development.

    That is their problem. 

    It is also their problem, how to regain customer confidence. One day. 

    First they need to fulfil current promises.

    Young company, employees excited at their product, simply getting over-excited. Easy to do, but not recommended.

     

     

     

     

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    Morten Erbs

    From the blog post: "The key to happy customers? Making your product as simple as possible."

    In my book it would be to deliver as promised, and if not keep customers well-informed about what to expect and when. But that is certainly not the Skylum way, and therefore there are so many dissatisfied users in the forum.

    I feel sorry for the support people in the forum - but it is an uphill battle as long as "soon" is the keyword when answering (and the information campaign mentioned in late spring has disappeared in a dark hole.... )

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    Denis Kotsee

    We addressed these and some other concerns of our users in a blog post here:

    https://skylum.com/blog/new-luminar-with-libraries-no-paid-upgrades-and-more

    Sorry it took us a while, and thanks for feeling for us support folks.

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    Moritz Wellner

    Another Problem with the published Blogpost and Video is, that the video shows a DAM that ist not really simpler than others (hopefully it is as powerful as others) and they advertise it as lightning fast but stop scrolling just before you see pictures loading... That's happening on multiple occasions in the video.

    Don't get me wrong, Lightroom isn't really fast but faster than and lightning fast are two different beasts. ON1 bragged about PhotoRaw being super duper fast and it wasn't and isn't, as far as my experience goes. It's also ugly but that's something of my taste.

    I'm looking from the perspective of Lightroom 5 in transition to C1 11 at the moment...

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    Morten Erbs

    @Dennis - what we have been waiting for - thank you :-) 

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    K.G. Wuensch

    @Moritz,

    if you think Lightroom is slow then you haven't looked at it recently - the current Lightroom 7.5 is considerably faster than Lightroom 5 and has a lot of features that reduce the time needed to edit a photo.

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    Nicolas Venot

    @ Dennis, this is the exact kind of product information and open communication we've all been wanting for all this time, thank you!

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    Rodney Brown

    @Dennis, thank you for the update, I'm looking forward to December!

     

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    Moritz Wellner

    @K.G. Wuensch

    Yeah, I know that they worked on this and finally reached the speed that Aperture had, when it was abandoned bei Apple years ago. That is, why I said that I'm used to Lightroom 5.

    I still find CaptureOne to be faster than Lightroom though, after trying the 7 trial.

    Adobe has done a lot of work and I appreciate it. I also like the Abonnement from a business standpoint but it is just to expansive for my taste from the standpoint of a hobbyist

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    Pascal Brönnimann

     

    “...Libraries will be powerful right out of the gate, but it represents the first of many photo organization and management updates launching over the following months.”

     

    Do I understand correctly that Skylum tells us in a roundabout way, that we'll have to wait until sometime in 2019 for a fully functional DAM??

    Am I wrong, or do they want to keep us waiting once more and take us for fools?

    At least it seems they want to comfort us with free updates for all 2018-users…

    Please excuse me if I'm wrong, but I've become very suspicious over the time.

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    David J Lima

    I think you are correct Pascal. I read it the same way. From that and what they show, it seems we will have a basic file browser in December. A fully featured DAM with keywords categories etc over the course of 2019! More marketing shenanigans.

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    ramesh ramchand

    Catalog vs DAM seems a bit underwhelming.

    ON1 just announced yesterday the ability to migrate all LR adjustments (with quite convincing videos) over to ON1 Raw 2019.

    I am keen to understand Luminar's migrate toolkit. I don't see how Luminar can replace LR, if such a feature does not exist. 

     

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    Rembert Oldenboom

    In that ON1 announcement one paragraph did struck me:

    A big hurdle for customers looking to adopt a new workflow is the fear of losing years and years of work. We want to remove that hurdle by giving them the ability to keep their edited photos and more importantly keep them in a non-destructive workflow when making the switch [...]

    Is this only RAW or also JPG? ON1 uses sidecar files for RAW. How is it done for JPG?
    How about Luminar?

    It's going to be an interesting autumn. ON1 vs. Skylum. Lightroom doesn't seem to take part in this battle (yet?). Anyway, I guess this will speedup development.

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    K.G. Wuensch

    @Rembert: "Lightroom doesn't seem to take part in this battle (yet?)" - they don't need to take part in a battle they already won years ago, they sit there comfortable on the place the others would like to reach... Compared to On1 or Luminar Lightroom is lightyears ahead. They have so much more going for them, most importantly the mostly seamless the integration with the cloud...

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    Brian Ramage

    oh WOW!!!

     

    ON1 RAW 2019 announcement was great. I love seeing the new features coming and how they openly said what was happening and what you could do. THAT'S the stuff I was looking for with AI advancements to analyze and copy over edits. 

     

    I know Luminar has some AI stuff too so hoping to see something similar. Another "neat trick" would be to have flattened (JPG or TIFF files) of processed RAW from another PP software, and have Luminar (or another) see that this is the same image as a certain RAW file and use AI to process the RAW in Luminar. That way I could save out my edits from Aperture, align with the new Luminar DAM and then bring over old files and more forward with Luminar as a DAM and have editable files from before. 

     

    THIS AI feature would be HUGE and an easy way for people to bring over their existing library and still have editable files that look about where they were in the previous Post Processing application.

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    ramesh ramchand

    And no migration tool from LR in the initial release. Definitely not a replacement for LR. No fight with ON1.

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    Fred Decker

    Add me to the list. I had such high hopes for Skylum/Luminar. It seemed like one of the real winners with great software, big promises, and initial updates. But after over a year of waiting for basic features that work on the Mac version in the PC version and seeing nothing on the long promised DAM, I am starting to think I bet on the wrong horse. 

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    K.G. Wuensch

    @Fred. I am off the list, I applied for a refund after I found out that sometime over the past updates Skylum has massively altered the RAW conversion again invalidating any possible previously created workflow. Since this sort of mindset is worrying me (because it means that noone at Skylum ever thought of the possible use cases, they simply have their developers hack away) I decided to no longer put in any testing effort... A further nail in the coffin fir me was the disparity between the Windows and Macs version, with the lack of color management a showstopper. If they release a DAM without color management then they are more stupid than I thought because whenever they come around to finally remedy that they will still have to keep the unmanaged version around for those that have created image edited on this premise and got used to the screwed up view...

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    Colin Grant

    There are other DAMs that can be used and which, initially anyway, will carry much more functionality. IMHO Luminar did/does not need a DAM, it just needs to work with other stand-alone DAMs already out there. Better to focus on core functionality such as extended masking (luminosity and colour range for instance). That said, we are where we are and the elephant is  now in the room :-)

    The DAM is due out in Dec (if not before) so Skylum, can you now share with us all the functionality that will be available on day 1 and, on the basis that it will not be a complete implementation, what will follow?

     

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    Jeffrey Hirschl

    Does anyone know how the edits in the DAM will be stored? In Lightroom of course the adjustments are stored in the catalog and/or .xmp files. The .xmp files are kilobytes. If the DAM stores edits/adjustments in .lmnr files, in one case I tried with no edits, the .lmnr file was 60% of the original RAW file. This would consume quite a bit of additional disk space in my case.

    Also Lightroom appears to do virtual copies (which I need) by simply generating another catalog entry that points to the same source file. If the DAM does this with .lmnr files, a lot more disk space would be consumed once again.

    Does anyone know the details of how this will work?

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    Angela Andrieux

    Hi Jeffrey,

    Edits will be stored in the Luminar Catalog.

    Virtual copies will not be included in the initial release, but it will be added future updates.

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    Bjarne Winkler

    WOW, some one wrote that he was upset that Skylum pre-advertised features like they where here, but they are not.  The latest video alluded, but did not show, the DAM Virtual feature in the Dec 18 release.  How hard is it to create a Virtual Folder and work with that as it is just another Photo Folder.  It does not have to hold the actual photo but just a pointer file to where the original photo is, but the edits should be stored here.  

     

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    Colin Grant

    Does that signify the end of the .lmnr file, Angela?

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