DAM

Answered

Comments

264 comments

  • Avatar
    Denis Kotsee

    I think at this point we can agree on not agreeing. I respect your point of view. Can't say that I don't feel a bit offended because many people here at Skylum pour their heart and soul into what they do, while working overtime and on weekends, but that's beside the point.

    Sorry about the refund - if you could please send us an email at support@skylum.com I'll make sure that we reimburse you right away.

    0
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Sascha C.

    @Angela:

     

    "...I don't believe that such a promise was made for 2017 users..."

    Yes, it was:

    https://web.archive.org/web/20171005150538/https://macphun.com/luminar/compare

    and

    https://skylum.com/blog/luminar-future

     

     

    1
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Mark Barnes

    Good to see that customer service is taking care of you with a refund. From you post it looks like Luminar, regardless of the DAM issue, doesn't fit your needs. Sorry to see this but you need the the software that help you make the right images for you.

     

    0
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Denis Kotsee

    @K.G. Wuensch 

    I also wanted to thank you. It might seem that we were conversing in the attack-rebuttal mode but it's not like that for me and I hope it's not like that for you as well.

    So thanks, to you, and to everyone else who reminds us that there's more work to do.

    0
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Angela Andrieux

    Hi Sascha,

    I stand corrected.

    We'll do everything we can to keep our customers happy - and that includes those who are still using v2017.

    0
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    A vitti

    Just to summarize:

     - In the same days lightroom became subscription only you released a (fake?) video on a "coming in 2018" DAM

    - you did it to attract customers, I think you earned money

    - money was good, product was incomplete, promise was false

     

    So Denis, work whatever weekend you need, but stop writing stupid feedback to chated customers. 

     

    I hope Skylum fired its marketing staff for such an international fake. Probably the same guys that invented the name Macphun. Skylum is better, I'm not having any more fun.

     

    Tomorrow the second half of 2018 begins.

    I read the blog. You keep answering with vague and sometimes bored excuses.

     

    You should be TRANSPARENT, you have TO APOLOGIZE, you have to indicate a RELEASE DATE or you have to REFUND your clients. 

     

    You only feel safe because you imagine that the price of your product doesn't justify a class action toward you. 

     

    History teaches that lying to customers is NOT GOOD AT ALL.

     

    I'm so sorry for Denis' family being alone all weekend. Hope you'll be able to spend more time with them when Company closes.

    1
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Russell Webb

    So Scott Bourne has chucked in his 10 cents worth https://skylum.com/blog/its-time-rethink-your-postprocessing-workflow

    Quote:-from article. '

    Skylum plans to offer the new DAM free to anyone who owns a current version of Luminar. Within a few weeks, the company will announce its final sale of the current version. There will be a well-known, well-publicized, time limit set for this sale and at the end of the sale, the retail price of the product will go up. Everyone who buys (or currently owns) the current version of Luminar before that date, will get the new DAM free of charge. After that date, the price will rise and will still be very affordable.

    The new DAM is still under development, and the company wants to make sure it is rock solid before it comes out of BETA. We’re in the home stretch. As soon as possible, the shipping date will be announced. For now, make sure you own the current version of Luminar to put yourself in the queue to receive the new DAM free of charge. '

    Now remember this guy is the President US & China at Skylum Software  and even he will not commit to a release date for the DAM but he still wants those who don't own Luminar to splash out cash.

     

    1
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Gracie Allen

    I read the latest blurb about the upcoming DAM.  And most of the comments in here – I’ll stay out of the ”who did what to whom and who lied and all that”, but for me, if someone creates a product that will allow me to do WHAT I WANT, faster, easier, more efficiently and better than I can with Lightroom and Photoshop, I’d dump Adobe… 

    Like most humans, I’m comfortable with the evil I know.  In this case, that’s Adobe.  Having spent the years and large numbers of hours to achieve mastery with Lightroom and Photoshop, any product that’s going to lure me away is going to have to be complete, FULLY implemented, and BULLETPROOF on Windows.  Don’t like Adobe, and like (I suspect) a huge number of subscribers I be happy to tell them goodbye, but the replacement is going to have to be a real improvement:

    • DAM – the one in Lightroom mostly works. It lets me use, and is fully compatible with, Bridge for those things that Lightroom does poorly and Photoshop for the REAL work.  A replacement will have to be pretty amazing and perform operations like importing a few thousand images from a D850 faster than Lightroom does.  And display them in thumbnails, previews and 1:1 FAST and accurately.
    • Tethering – It has to tether directly to any of my Nikons, including the D850, load images directly into the catalog, and view the images within seconds (and not many seconds).
    • Faster – It’s going to have to perceptibly (preferably significantly) outperform both Lightroom and Photoshop (presuming it’s intended to replace Photoshop)
    • Features – it’s going to have all the features I’m used to, presented in a way that makes it easy to find them and an interface that’s intuitive enough to use them WITHOUT spending another hundred+ hours fumbling to find where everything is, how it works, how to customize and configure it, and exactly how best to use it.
    • Support – REALLY REALLY GREAT SUPPORT… NOT an email where you send it and wait hours or days HOPING for a solution.  OR sticking an entry in a forum and waiting hours or days for someone to respond…  When I contact support, it’s because I’ve done as much research as I can, and can’t find an answer.  Which means I need a LIVE HUMAN EXPERT ON A PHONE to give me a solution.  This means NOT using something electronic where after 24 hours you bump the entry and get a response that “there wasn’t any available to help for 2 days because your entry was on Saturday and we don’t work weekends.”  Not saying this would happen at Skylum, but…
    • COST EFFECTIVE – It has to enable me to DUMP the Adobe subscription. Which means it has to enable me to not just do what I do in Lightroom, but also the REAL pixel-level manipulation I do in Photoshop.  If I have to KEEP the subscription to Adobe to have the current Photoshop, the product ISN’T cost effective.

    I bought the hype last year for Aurora “amazing, magical product at this once-in-a-lifetime, low LOW price, and if you DON’T buy it right now, the price is going up”.  Tried it against Lightroom, Photoshop, Affinity Photo and HDR Efex Pro, then always kept the output from HDR Efex Pro.  Tried to dump it was was told “Oh, hang on ‘cause there’s a NEW version coming that’s going to be WAY better.”  So, it sits.  Every so often I try it again, have it download the latest version and see if it’s significantly faster, more configurable and intuitive, and generates better output without a large amount of tweaking than the other tools I’m using.

    So, my approach is very much “Trust, but ALWAYS VERIFY”.  For me to consider ANY product from anybody, it’s going to have to be a real improvement, and a full-featured product with a VERY good DAM to fully explore before I’d even consider it. I've tried a couple version of Luminar over the past months and found them all to be lacking features that I"m used to in the Adobe products.  I'm sure it's continuing to evolve, so hopefully the current, or soon to be version with the DAM, will have everything needed (and NO, I DON'T remember everything that was missing - this was a few months ago in a side-by-side with Lightroom, trying to make the same adjustments to images in both tools).

    And doing the “if you don’t hurry up and buy this RIGHT NOW at the amazing introductory price, we’re going to raise the price” makes me think of those “Special offer as seen ONLY on TV things” rather than something from a reputable company.

    0
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Pascal Brönnimann

    Ok, so now we all know that Skylum will make the DAM-module better, faster, cooler and easier than comparable software - and that we have to keep waiting for it.


    I really hope the pros and enthusiasts won't be forgotten in this faster, "faster, simpler, simpler - hype". I think Skylum could be on a dangerous path to lose sight of its goal and end up as another dummy - software if it focuses more on automatic adjustments (noise-reduction in RAW-converter e.g. !!) and AI-algorithms.
    Much has already been said about the upcoming DAM-module and i would like to add a very important point:

    Because Luminar has its own unique file format and no one knows if Skylum will be successful in the long run (I`ve just some doubts), no real photographer would risk his raw data and no one is eager to use twice as much space for his data for the case, that Skylum has to bite of more than they can chew and fails.
    But since the file format is a container, I very much hope, that the coming DAM has one simple (yes, keep it SIMPLE! ;-) button to extract and save the original RAW-file in its original format (of course also for batch processing).
    Personally, I would never convert my raw data to a format I don't know if it will be supported in the future. Lmnr-files are not on the save side, while native camera files (and DNG) are supportet by almost all RAW-converters. Sure, I`ll lose my adjustments, but not the file. We will see what Skylum will deliver in the future. They started quite impressively but if Luminar wants to become a serious competitor for Lightroom, it has to be better, not only more favorable (and faster). Promises alone are not enough - I've been waiting months for some bugs to be fixed.

    And by the way: Does anyone else get Skylum-spam to mail addresses that he never shared with Skylum and that Skylum actually can't know??

    -1
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Todd F

    At this point, if I had a choice between the DAM or a refund, I'd go with the refund.

    1
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Pedro Pulido

    Konstantin Zolo said 4 months ago :

    "Hi, the DAM is actively being developed and will be released soon! We'll reveal more details when we get closer to the launch."

     What is the concept of soon for Skylum ? 1 year ????? 
    0
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Russell Webb

    Dumped it now along with Aurora HDR, gone back to SNS-HDR,  Lightroom 6 and Photoshop CS 6, old yes but still works great and along with so many plugins available from 3rd parties it does what is needed for a photographer.

    Now today I get an update email and NO DAM!!!!

    0
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Lars Schorling

    We all by now know about the public statements and a not so specific time-frame for delivery.

    @Skylum: For keeping us customer "not so worried" maybe it could be a good idea for you to release some demo videos of the upcoming DAM. I think that would greatly help if people are seeing something in live action and will accept better that they still have to wait "a while" and you can do this without getting the risk of delivering too early ;)

    1
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Ken Korman

    After this update I have noticed that clicking on any clone or erased layers pushes the histogram to the right brightening the image and washing out highlights with some images. I do not think there is a need for me to send any image files to Skylum, as this is easily repeatable. Disappointed to say the least. One step forward, two steps backward. After the initial release of Lum 2018, I tried it and liked it so much, I purchased it believing it could be my Aperture replacement, at least once the DAM is released. 

    1
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Gracie Allen

    I'm as loathe to defend Skylum as I am Adobe when they announce the "NEWEST, GREATEST, MOST AMAZING THING" and it turns out to be utter BS, late, buggy, and far less than what's needed.  But, my suspicion is that Skylum is getting a lot of pressure to make their product suite adequately competitive with Adobe's products to start making real, meaningful inroads into Adobe's base. 

    Which means lots of hyperbole, vague references to when the product will be available, and yet another "buy this right now 'cause this is a once-in-a-lifetime bargain that will be gone tomorrow"... 

    Eventually the DAM will show up.  How good it will be I have no idea.  How compatible with the existing catalogs many of us have, I have no idea.

    I periodically try Luminar to see if it has significantly improved on Windows, and I just downloaded the latest version to play with when time allows, but so far previous versions haven't come close to being a replacement. 

    We'll see when the DAM shows up.

     

    1
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Denis Kotsee

    I've got some news about the DAM - we're going to have another round of closed beta in August, and that's when we're going to start sharing more information about its features and stuff like that.

    4
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Angela Andrieux

    @Ken - Can you describe what (if any) edits you made after creating the Clone/Erase layers?

    -2
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Denis Kotsee

    @Ken Korman I've just tried reproducing this on Mac OS 10.13.5 and with the most recent version of Luminar, and didn't notice this issue with the histogram. Could you please drop us a line at support@skylum.com and maybe attach a screen recording of this happening on your computer? Thanks.

    -1
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Fernando Ariznavarreta

    Great. I will try it in september, whe I come back from holidays.

    Don't take me wrong, I like luminar, it is a good product or promises to be going a great one.

    What has not been so great is marketing around it. It was announced way too early and promised more than it was able to provide in a reasonable time window.

    2
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Chris Malikoff

    @Denis Kotsee - I sincerely hope and trust that Skylum will include ALL contributors to this thread with beta program membership if they want it.

     

    1
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Nicolas Venot

    Couldn't agree more with Fernando. While I really want Skylum to succeed and put out a really quality product, their very poor marketing strategies and constantly changing dates have put me completely off of buying any further Skylum products (I was almost about to buy Aurora) at least until they actually deliver on promises. That being said any future promises will be taken with a grain of salt.

    I get it, unexpected challenges come up and requirements can change while you're working on something, and I it really sounds like they're genuinely trying to put out the best product. Unfortunately, given their track record I won't at all be surprised if  things keep getting pushed further and further back until one has to upgrade to next year's version. If that's the case there will be A LOT of unhappy customers, myself included...

    2
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Keith George

    Well I continue to wait, using Apple aperture, which is a very old and unsupported DAM but it’s a beast!! It’s still holding in there and was far ahead of its time only having other catch it!! I’m hoping by delaying the release of the Skylum DAM, this is what’s happening, a Beast is being created!!! Keep working diligently, I look forward to hopefully using it this year so I can give further feed back and ideas to help make it the best DAM thing out there.

    1
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Keith George

    I know I have already inquired regarding the current Luminar/ Skylum on item not available, which I hope to see:
    Upscaling algorithm for resize
    Or down scaling
    Presets for photo output (web, email etc)
    RAW recovery slider
    Auto red eye
    Fast culling with rating system
    The list goes on! It’s a big task building a DAM from scratch, with several heavy hitters already out there... what are things you would like to see in the DAM?? Keep plugging Skylum I appreciate the thousands of hours of coding going on..

    0
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Frank Fiorentino

    wow.  a closed beta in August means best case scenario is a release in September.  That is hardly the coming weeks that was in the last public update. I bought Luminar last year based on the marketing of an early 2018 DAM. Skylum failed so I put the software aside since I did not want to work on one-off images and using it as a plugin means losing editing history and ability to re-visit photos. If the Sklyum release cycle holds up that would mean Luminar 2019 in Oct/Nov requiring another payment to get updates for a new version. Sklyum needs to stop the marketing hype and think about how they can make good with their current customer base. I do believe that Luminar has potential but there are several other viable options. A deeply discounted upgrade from 2018-2019 should be offered. 

    2
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Sascha C.

    Don't believe it, but I currently about to go back to Lightroom. The workflow together with the Mobile App is amazing and LRCC is enough for 80% of the work which all can be done on my iPAD without limitations. For the other 20% I now choose between Lightroom CC classic or a combination with Photoshop Elements 2018 (PSE) (where I have a license too). Sure, LRCC is limited in export, but PSE can interpret the exported Original with XMP including lens corrections made in LRCC. From there I am able to export in any format and do further quality editing (in Affinity Photo for example). 

    For me as Hobby Photographer this could be enough. Maybe the subscription with LR Classic is still an option... 

    However, I gave up believing that Skylum is able to deliver a DAM that is changing the world. I am sure 2018 customers get a limited DAM functionality, maybe some Dropbox or other cloud integration, but nothing special. There will be no wow effect, sorry, but I don't believe in that. I waited so long, limited my Workflow, was fighting with LMNR files, losing compatibility between Luminar 2017 and 2018 and hoped that Skylum will keep its promises and deliver. 

    For the moment, it's over baby, I have thousands of Photos not edited because I waited for a better option in Luminar to handle the files. I will not wait longer. Maybe we will see us again in future, but the probability for that isn't very high.

    A good product for me was destroyed by bad marketing, bad project planning, bad communication and wrong promises.

    I know about the disadvantages of LR subscription. Be sure about that. But I stopped to trust Skylum and Luminar. If you continue like in the past, I have no guarantee that Skylum and/or Luminar will be there for me with a working version in the future. 

    Sascha

    3
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Larry Koch

    I wish I'd have stumbled across this thread a couple of months ago - it would have saved me some money, because I wouldn't have purchased Luminar 2018.  I too figured early 2018 meant early 2018.  I HATE monthly payments, but I signed back up and am back in Lightroom.

    I'll keep my eyes open for this phantom DAM and see how it plays out.

    My advice - don't wait for something that will likely never come.  Take pictures, edit your pictures any way it pleases you, and live life!

    Peace to you all....

    0
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Peter Holka

    It would be nice to implement some simple file browser until DAM will be delivered. It is really annoying drag and drop every single image. That's the main reason why I hardly use Luminar now and will not in the future. Yeah , AND lack of  PLUGIN feature in the windows version.

    0
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    K.G. Wuensch

    You current shenanigans make a very good case for the Lightroom Classic CC subscription. Luminar still hasn't got a DAM (one year on from your announcement), there isn't even a feature list, nor a simple demo video of how the DAM will work - who with a sane mind is going to wait for that to happen?

    I was never going to leave the subscription anyway because of the integration of the cloud is more valuable to me than any other DAM feature, with the uploaded smart previews of my chosen collections I can use my iPad to browse, rate and even edit my images, I can do ad hoc presentations when I am meeting up with other photographers. When I want to I can do the same in any browser anywhere - and find my edits back in my main collection on my work desktop. That kind of utility is changing the photographers world, not yet another browser with some rating ability, for that there is Photo Mechanic which is a proven professional tool that does things in a way professionals need - Luminar isn't in the same league by a wide margin...

    Also you are much too easily blaming the hardware on deficiencies of your software. If loading an image takes 15-30 seconds when trying to edit it - how long will it take to load it to display it? If it's a raw the time will not be substantially shorter. LR takes some time to create the smart previews (something alike isn't needed according to your blog post) but then it's blazingly fast compared to Luminar, Heck, even without the previews in place LR (or Darktable or Rawtherapee or DPP or CO1 - all on the same hardware) is 10-20 times faster than Luminar. And then there is the OpenGL debacle. No other image editor software relies as much on the graphics card - all other programs work and function without OpenGL in place, for all it's an option that makes certain operations faster but in no way it is mandatory!

    So false promises (you should reread your announcements from July/August 2017), false premises (everyone runs high end graphics cards), false priorities (let's break with traditional DAM paradigms), badly implemented functionality (crop tool is totally unusable if you want to have fixed aspect ratio crops), lack of essential functionality (no color management on Windows), persisting bugs, lack of information about the supposedly in beta DAM functions - sorry, please have an emergency meeting and decide what Luminar is supposed to be. Stop the "we can grab a few quick bucks by pretending we can beat Adobe at their own game" marketing huff and puff - it's all vapor ware to date and the foundations are a string of pot holes ready to swallow the building...

    3
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Mark Barnes

    Just my 2 cents worth: I share many of the frustrations expressed here about the DAM, or lack thereof. I too have put off going to LR waiting for what I hope will be a better and easier DAM than LR. I (a sane person) am choosing to wait since I'm not  invested in LR or any other DAM at this point. I think that there are many photographers that, based on their detailed suggestions and and complaints, should stay with or go over to LR as it probably best serves their needs. Some seem sure that the new DAM won't address their needs anyway.  I also hope that this DAM forum (pun intended) can become a better dialog with Skylum on their progress, beta testing results and other updates. I'm pretty sure that Skylum is plenty aware of the frustration and anger over their mis-steps on how the DAM has been marketed. 

    1
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    Gracie Allen

    Just out of curiosity, Mark, why are you sure Skylum is aware of the entries here? Not that they can't be, but a lot of forums aren't frequented by employees high enough in the bureaucracy to have their awareness matter...

    0
    Comment actions Permalink

Please sign in to leave a comment.